[net.religion.jewish] Frame of Reference -> interpretations

yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (10/25/84)

You asked for both an Ashkenazi and a S'fardi input as well as
an input from me. Well, I'm not bound to either Ashkenazi or
S'fardi. I think both have a great deal of good points and 
there is a great deal about both with which I agree and that
I admire.

1.) There is no acceptable substitute for the Hebrew scriptures.
This is a common error which has led to infinite misunderstandings
and misconceptions about the scriptures.  My suggestion is that
you supplement the 'least objectionable' English translation with
input from a local orthodox rabbi (again I emphasize orthodox).
You need not be afraid to seek information from an orthodox rabbi
in general. There may be some who are defensive (like me), but
that's human statistics. Most, I think, will be delighted with
your interest in learning. Regarding the 'least objectionable'
English translation (at the moment), I would recommend The Torah,
The Prophets, and The Writings from the Jewish Publication 
Society (3 books). I repeat my caution: without input from the
rabbi, a Christian is certain to get off track because of the
non-Jewish frame of reference. The same phrase or statement
spoken to a Jew is often understood differently when heard by
a non-Jew because the non-Jew lacks so much knowledge and insights
in Judaism which are necessary to understand what was meant.
For the non-Jew to assert that his understanding could just as
well be the correct one is a foolish assertion which overlooks
the fact that the scriptures are Jewish scriptures written in
Hebrew by Jews to Jews about Jewish matters. When taken out of
that context, conclusions become non-valid.

Regarding your questions re polygyny vs monogyny (polyandry 
has never been permitted), I refer you to the Encyclopedia
Judaica, vol. 12:258 under the entry 'monogamy'. Monogamy
did not become a 'requirement' until the 12th century CE.
Then it was in large measure a result of Christian influence
and custom rather than any Biblical consideration. Any so-
called Biblical support was an ad hoc attempt to justify
this change in posture. 

Regarding your mention that 'one might infer monogamy', from
the passage you cited earlier in Genesis, one may not 
'logically' nor correctly conclude monogamy from that passage.

The logical error you seem to be making is equating marriage
to a second wife with infidelity or divorce from the first.
Neither is a necessary consequence of marrying a second wife.
On the one hand, there are many who are monogomous and have
divorced their wives while others have been married to 
several wives and have not divorced any of them. It was not
unusual for a man of limited means to promise a potential
first wife to share his wealth only with her as a part of
the marriage contract. For him, then, to go marry a second
wife in addition (assuming the first wife has not changed
her mind and agreed - i.e., he might have become wealthy or
a second wife would be helpful in contributing to family
needs, children or whatever) would break his contract with 
the first wife. This is covered better in the EJ. The pas-
sage you cited from Malakhiy deals not only with this, but
also with the transgression of marrying non-Jewish wives.
Monogamy is not the issue here either. Just as one can be
faithful to one wife or unfaithful/divorce one wife, so
also one can be faithful to more than one wife or unfaith-
ful/divorce one or more of the wives.

As to whether the GIST of your quote is SIMILAR to the Hebrew,
I would say yes - but point out that the context earlier in 
the chapter lends an important perspective to its understanding
as well.

You are correct in suspecting that your Christian frame of
reference influences how you interpret these passages. I would
add that your non-Jewish frame of reference also contributes
to the problem. There is a slight difference even though they
are closely related. 

It would be well worth your while to consult the Encyclopedia
Judaica routinely when looking for answers. Your local library
should have a set. Certainly one of the synagogues will have
a set. Getting answers over the net is quite slow and cannot
go into detail in the volume that a face-to-face conversation 
can. I strongly urge that your next source after the EJ be 
one of the rabbis at Congregation Beth Jacob, Congregation 
Or Ve-Shalom on N. Highland Ave., or Congregation Or Ve-Shalom 
on North Druid Hills Rd. in Atlanta. I don't mean to put you
off, but you really don't realize at this point the volume of
information that you need. It just isn't conceivable to 
handle it over the net. If you can obtain the brunt of it
from the EJ and discussions with an orthodox rabbi, then we
can certainly do a more reasonable job of discussing our
opinions on these matters having a similar basis underlying
our discussions. It would by unfair to you and irresponsible
of us for either of us to pretend that you can learn what
you need from us over the net. (As an example: for purposes
of converting, orthodox rabbis require a period of supervised
and organized study to ensure that the potential convert
understands at least the basics of Judaism. I'm not suggesting
converting so let's not get into that. The point is that even
for those who wish to convert, months of study are required
before they are regarded as knowledgeable enough even to
convert.) The problem here is one of obtaining not just a
list of facts, but of developing an overall perspective which
is quite different from your present perspective. Facts on,
say, 5 or 6 issues/questions can be treated through (often
lengthy and extended) correspondence such as this. But to
develop an entirely new and different frame of reference in
addition to the one you have is not a simple matter. How
many years did it take for you to develop the frame of 
reference you now have? How many years do you think it
takes for a Jew to develop his/her frame of reference?
Yet, this frame of reference is an ABSOLUTE ESSENTIAL in
interpreting Jewish writings because they require insight
from this frame of reference and a freedom from alien
frames of reference. That is not to say it is impossible.
Most Jewish children spend 2-3 years in Hebrew school as
a child which is supplemented by what they learn in the
home. By applying yourself and focusing a lot of effort,
you can learn a respectable frame of reference in 3-5
years depending on your rate of learning. So, I'm not
saying you cannot do it. I'm only saying that you should
realize that a great deal of work is involved. If you
content yourself with discussing an issue here and there,
you will be fooling yourself and doing yourself a 
terrible injustice worse than not pursuing it at all.
If you wish to pursue it, there are several things you
should do (in my opinion): 1) get a copy of The First
Jewish Catalog from the Jewish Publication Society and
devour it (it is NOT authoritative, but will introduce
you to a wide variety of things which will probably be
new to you and help you in the next step). 2) Contact
the rabbis of the synagogues I listed and select one
or two you feel most comfortable with. I would suggest
that you try to 'audit' a convert class just for the
information. I doubt that the rabbi would object even
though it is not for purposes of conversion. (Also, you
will learn some basic Hebrew in the process.) Further,
I would suggest that you be open, after you have be-
come more familiar with Judaism, to the idea of attending
a few synagogue services and, perhaps, some Bar Mitzvah
classes to get a feeling of what information is required
of converts, typical observant orthodox Jews, young men
about to be Bar Mitzvahed, and typical life in an observant
orthodox community. This is where you can develop insight.
Otherwise you are merely collecting samples of paint which
are handed to you and have no idea what the painting on 
the canvas, upon which the samples were based, looks like.
This will always be futile and self-deceiving.

Here is the bottom line:
You must learn enough about Jewish perspective that you
naturally apply Jewish insight when considering Jewish
scriptures. That is the key, and the only key, which 
will unlock the scriptures for you. 

I hope this has helped you.

rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) (10/29/84)

Yiri,

Thank you for your considerate and extensive reply to my
Polygamy question.  Of course, the plan you detailed requires
a committment of large proportions that would require a long
pause to reflect and gain agreement with affected family members.

Are we dealing here with the old question " If you are not
a (Fill in the Blank), then you really can't say anything
or know anything meaningful about (Blank)." ?
I have seen this applied to several groups (some of which I am 
a member) such as Jews, Arabs, Blacks, Southerners, Christians, etc. 

I guess what I distill from what you say is that in order to really
"know"(with a Jewish perspective)  anything worth knowing about 
Judaism, I must fulfill
the basic requirements of becoming an observant Jew.

I think in the end this boils down to priorities, 24 hrs in a day
and a veritable plethora (as Howard Cosell would say) of learning
situations. 

I loved the example about the paints and the canvas but there is
a certain beauty and richness in studying even these handed to
you by a kind art teacher.

Thanks again for your time.

Color me Gone.



Bob Brown {...ihnp4!akgua!rjb}