[net.religion.jewish] Undercurrents of Christianity in America

yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (10/29/84)

The following is an example of why I believe it is essential
for Jews to abandon what I term the 'ostrich syndrome' which
assumes that if we ignore it it won't get any worse. It is
my feeling that strong undercurrents of anti-semitism are 
just beneath the surface (and USUALLY not even recognized
even by those closest to the problem) in America, and 
particularly in Christianity, today. The following is not
atypical of Christianity in modern America.

Reprinted from the Heritage Florida Jewish News,
                   October 26, 1984
                   Viewpoint
----------------
'Religious attitudes upset reader
          by Belle Hyman
          Maitland

On Oct. 9, the subject on the Phil Donahue show was "Political
Advertising - Do you want your contribution dollars used for
this purpose?" As always, the discussion strayed from the 
narrow topic.

There were four advertising consultants on the panel, one of 
whom was Jewish. At one point towards the end of the program,
he stated that he is very uncomfortable with a president who
says "This is a Christian nation." A woman in the audience
replied that he had better understand "it IS a Christian
nation", and he had better accept that fact! Needless to say,
the audience began buzzing.

But the situation worsened when she continued (in a somewhat
lowered voice) "We have to do something TO them". Again there
was buzzing in the audience, this time at a much louder pitch.
Phil Donahue's face was obvioiusly shocked and, after he gained
his composure, he asked her what she meant by such a statement.
She answered, "We have to make THEM Christian."

My reaction was utter horror to be compounded by the next
person who told the Jewish panelist that he was lucky this
is a Christian nation because otherwise another Hitler
could come in and kill "6 million more of you".'

--------------

Actually, some number of Christians (how many?) also
suffer from the 'ostrich syndrome' in not recognizing
these undercurrents in their own ranks AND DOING 
SOMETHING EFFECTIVE ABOUT IT like learning, first of
all, to recognize the symptoms in their early stages
and ostracizing their peers for such racism and bigotry.
(To learn to recognize the early stages, seek out your
local Jewish community's Community Relations people
and develop a continuing relationship with them. They
know what to look for and can help you recognize it.)
If you're not part of the solution, then you are a 
part of the problem.

It's time we Jews assert the rightness of our beliefs
and demonstrate to the world that we are neither lacking
in religious knowledge nor factual basis for our beliefs
in Judaism, that Judaism is a very scholarly and 
intelligent choice of religions, and that Jews are
neither doomed nor pathetically unenlightened and
'unsaved' ignorant people in need of conversion. (No
condescending concessions on net.religion please. 
I think that previous articles have demonstrated 
unmistakably that we can earn legitimate recognition 
and have no need for an artificial act of pseudo-
charity to placate us.) If we don't tell them, 
can we really blame them for making such assumptions? 
Who else WILL tell them?

naiman@pegasus.UUCP (Ephrayim J. Naiman) (10/31/84)

<There are article eaters too !>

> On Oct. 9, the subject on the Phil Donahue show was "Political
> Advertising - Do you want your contribution dollars used for
> this purpose?" As always, the discussion strayed from the 
> narrow topic.
> 
> There were four advertising consultants on the panel, one of 
> whom was Jewish. At one point towards the end of the program,
> he stated that he is very uncomfortable with a president who
> says "This is a Christian nation." A woman in the audience
> replied that he had better understand "it IS a Christian
> nation", and he had better accept that fact! Needless to say,
> the audience began buzzing.
> 
> But the situation worsened when she continued (in a somewhat
> lowered voice) "We have to do something TO them". Again there
> was buzzing in the audience, this time at a much louder pitch.
> Phil Donahue's face was obvioiusly shocked and, after he gained
> his composure, he asked her what she meant by such a statement.
> She answered, "We have to make THEM Christian."
> 
> My reaction was utter horror to be compounded by the next
> person who told the Jewish panelist that he was lucky this
> is a Christian nation because otherwise another Hitler
> could come in and kill "6 million more of you".'
> 
> --------------

I re-quoted the whole article in case some site did not get it.


I was kind of disturbed when I read this, what religion did Germany practice ?
Were there any reprecussions from this show ?
Did Donahue have another show about anti-Semitism ?
Was that the end of the show, or was there more discussion ?
-- 
==> Ephrayim J. Naiman @ AT&T Information Systems Laboratories (201) 576-6259
Paths: [ihnp4, allegra, hogpc, maxvax, cbosgd, lzmi, ...]!pegasus!naiman

abeles@mhuxm.UUCP (abeles) (10/31/84)

On one of the "Heritage" series shows with Abba Eban, aired locally on
channel 58 from New Brunswick, NJ October 30, he discussed something very
interesting and germane to the Phil Donahue episode discussed by
Ben-David.  One of the Rothschilds was elected to the English Parliament
but refused to swear on the Anglican bible, which had been required
before beginning a term in the House of Commons.  This was in the early
1800's, actually c. 1846.  He was prevented from assuming office.

The Anglican church said that England was a Christian country, just like
the lady on the Phil Donahue show claimed.  Evidently the predominantly
Christian English (thank G-d!) disagreed because after 12 years of debate,
according to Eban, in 1858, following 6 re-elections of which 5 were
only symbolic this Jew was permitted to take office in the Parliament without
swearing on the Anglican bible.

I would conclude that while we as Jews may occasionally express our minority
status by saying among ourselves that the US (e. g.) is a "Christian" 
country, this is not a true statement.  At least, in the sense that the
Christian establishment has defined it to be, the US and England, France,
Italy, etc., etc., etc. are not Christian countries.

The punch line of the history given by Eban is that in 1868 a son of
a Jewish father who had converted to Christianity in order to participate
more easily in society, who was viewed by many Christians as being Jewish,
became Prime Minister.  I refer, of course, to Benjamin Disraeli.
Considering the touchiness with which is viewed the possibility of an
American Jew becoming President of the United States, it is remarkable that
England had a "Jewish" head of state 116 years ago!

--J. Abeles

yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/01/84)

I don't know any more about this particular show. I'm sure that
a transcript could be obtained from the producers.

The religion of Germany was Christianity - and no, they do NOT
like to hear it and they do NOT accept that.

essachs@ihuxl.UUCP (Ed Sachs) (11/01/84)

<>
If you count Benjamin Disraeli as a "Jewish" prime minister of
Great Britain, then you might say that the US had a "Jewish"
candidate for president (Barry Goldwater in 1964).

"If a Jew is ever elected president of the United States, he'll
be an Episcopalian"  (source unknown -:)).
-- 
				Ed Sachs
				AT&T Bell Laboratories
				Naperville, IL
				ihnp4!ihuxl!essachs

lab@qubix.UUCP (Q-Bick) (11/07/84)

> The religion of Germany was Christianity - and no, they do NOT
> like to hear it and they do NOT accept that.

That Yiri writes this no longer suprises me. Hitler's own words:
"The religions are all alike, no matter what they call themselves. They
have no future - certainly none for the Germans. Fascism, if it likes,
may come to terms with the Church. So shall I. Why not? That will not
prevent me from tearing up Christianity root and branch, and
annihilating it in Germany....
A German Church, a German Christianity, is distortion. One is either a
German or a Christian. You cannot be both...."

Or from Professor Hauer, one of the three leaders of the German Faith
Movement of the 30's and 40's:
"We confess the primal religious will of the German people. Through this
leadership we believe we can find the road to salvation (Heil) for
ourselves and our people.
...The struggle between Christianity and the German faith in the German
soul is thus an event of unexpected depth."

And among the officially announced objectives of the GFM was:
"Therefore necessarily the German Faith Movement denies Christianity. It
rejects Christianity in every shape or form, because its fundamental
principles contradict the laws of life of people and race, and are alien
to what is intrinsically German."

Yiri doesn't like it, and won't accept it.
-- 
		The Ice Floe of Larry Bickford
		{amd,decwrl,sun,idi,ittvax}!qubix!lab

You can't settle the issue until you've settled how to settle the issue.