yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (10/29/84)
The following is an example of why I believe it is essential for Jews to abandon what I term the 'ostrich syndrome' which assumes that if we ignore it it won't get any worse. It is my feeling that strong undercurrents of anti-semitism are just beneath the surface (and USUALLY not even recognized even by those closest to the problem) in America, and particularly in Christianity, today. The following is not atypical of Christianity in modern America. Reprinted from the Heritage Florida Jewish News, October 26, 1984 Viewpoint ---------------- 'Religious attitudes upset reader by Belle Hyman Maitland On Oct. 9, the subject on the Phil Donahue show was "Political Advertising - Do you want your contribution dollars used for this purpose?" As always, the discussion strayed from the narrow topic. There were four advertising consultants on the panel, one of whom was Jewish. At one point towards the end of the program, he stated that he is very uncomfortable with a president who says "This is a Christian nation." A woman in the audience replied that he had better understand "it IS a Christian nation", and he had better accept that fact! Needless to say, the audience began buzzing. But the situation worsened when she continued (in a somewhat lowered voice) "We have to do something TO them". Again there was buzzing in the audience, this time at a much louder pitch. Phil Donahue's face was obvioiusly shocked and, after he gained his composure, he asked her what she meant by such a statement. She answered, "We have to make THEM Christian." My reaction was utter horror to be compounded by the next person who told the Jewish panelist that he was lucky this is a Christian nation because otherwise another Hitler could come in and kill "6 million more of you".' -------------- Actually, some number of Christians (how many?) also suffer from the 'ostrich syndrome' in not recognizing these undercurrents in their own ranks AND DOING SOMETHING EFFECTIVE ABOUT IT like learning, first of all, to recognize the symptoms in their early stages and ostracizing their peers for such racism and bigotry. (To learn to recognize the early stages, seek out your local Jewish community's Community Relations people and develop a continuing relationship with them. They know what to look for and can help you recognize it.) If you're not part of the solution, then you are a part of the problem. It's time we Jews assert the rightness of our beliefs and demonstrate to the world that we are neither lacking in religious knowledge nor factual basis for our beliefs in Judaism, that Judaism is a very scholarly and intelligent choice of religions, and that Jews are neither doomed nor pathetically unenlightened and 'unsaved' ignorant people in need of conversion. (No condescending concessions on net.religion please. I think that previous articles have demonstrated unmistakably that we can earn legitimate recognition and have no need for an artificial act of pseudo- charity to placate us.) If we don't tell them, can we really blame them for making such assumptions? Who else WILL tell them?
naiman@pegasus.UUCP (Ephrayim J. Naiman) (10/31/84)
<There are article eaters too !> > On Oct. 9, the subject on the Phil Donahue show was "Political > Advertising - Do you want your contribution dollars used for > this purpose?" As always, the discussion strayed from the > narrow topic. > > There were four advertising consultants on the panel, one of > whom was Jewish. At one point towards the end of the program, > he stated that he is very uncomfortable with a president who > says "This is a Christian nation." A woman in the audience > replied that he had better understand "it IS a Christian > nation", and he had better accept that fact! Needless to say, > the audience began buzzing. > > But the situation worsened when she continued (in a somewhat > lowered voice) "We have to do something TO them". Again there > was buzzing in the audience, this time at a much louder pitch. > Phil Donahue's face was obvioiusly shocked and, after he gained > his composure, he asked her what she meant by such a statement. > She answered, "We have to make THEM Christian." > > My reaction was utter horror to be compounded by the next > person who told the Jewish panelist that he was lucky this > is a Christian nation because otherwise another Hitler > could come in and kill "6 million more of you".' > > -------------- I re-quoted the whole article in case some site did not get it. I was kind of disturbed when I read this, what religion did Germany practice ? Were there any reprecussions from this show ? Did Donahue have another show about anti-Semitism ? Was that the end of the show, or was there more discussion ? -- ==> Ephrayim J. Naiman @ AT&T Information Systems Laboratories (201) 576-6259 Paths: [ihnp4, allegra, hogpc, maxvax, cbosgd, lzmi, ...]!pegasus!naiman
abeles@mhuxm.UUCP (abeles) (10/31/84)
On one of the "Heritage" series shows with Abba Eban, aired locally on channel 58 from New Brunswick, NJ October 30, he discussed something very interesting and germane to the Phil Donahue episode discussed by Ben-David. One of the Rothschilds was elected to the English Parliament but refused to swear on the Anglican bible, which had been required before beginning a term in the House of Commons. This was in the early 1800's, actually c. 1846. He was prevented from assuming office. The Anglican church said that England was a Christian country, just like the lady on the Phil Donahue show claimed. Evidently the predominantly Christian English (thank G-d!) disagreed because after 12 years of debate, according to Eban, in 1858, following 6 re-elections of which 5 were only symbolic this Jew was permitted to take office in the Parliament without swearing on the Anglican bible. I would conclude that while we as Jews may occasionally express our minority status by saying among ourselves that the US (e. g.) is a "Christian" country, this is not a true statement. At least, in the sense that the Christian establishment has defined it to be, the US and England, France, Italy, etc., etc., etc. are not Christian countries. The punch line of the history given by Eban is that in 1868 a son of a Jewish father who had converted to Christianity in order to participate more easily in society, who was viewed by many Christians as being Jewish, became Prime Minister. I refer, of course, to Benjamin Disraeli. Considering the touchiness with which is viewed the possibility of an American Jew becoming President of the United States, it is remarkable that England had a "Jewish" head of state 116 years ago! --J. Abeles
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/01/84)
I don't know any more about this particular show. I'm sure that a transcript could be obtained from the producers. The religion of Germany was Christianity - and no, they do NOT like to hear it and they do NOT accept that.
essachs@ihuxl.UUCP (Ed Sachs) (11/01/84)
<> If you count Benjamin Disraeli as a "Jewish" prime minister of Great Britain, then you might say that the US had a "Jewish" candidate for president (Barry Goldwater in 1964). "If a Jew is ever elected president of the United States, he'll be an Episcopalian" (source unknown -:)). -- Ed Sachs AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, IL ihnp4!ihuxl!essachs
lab@qubix.UUCP (Q-Bick) (11/07/84)
> The religion of Germany was Christianity - and no, they do NOT > like to hear it and they do NOT accept that. That Yiri writes this no longer suprises me. Hitler's own words: "The religions are all alike, no matter what they call themselves. They have no future - certainly none for the Germans. Fascism, if it likes, may come to terms with the Church. So shall I. Why not? That will not prevent me from tearing up Christianity root and branch, and annihilating it in Germany.... A German Church, a German Christianity, is distortion. One is either a German or a Christian. You cannot be both...." Or from Professor Hauer, one of the three leaders of the German Faith Movement of the 30's and 40's: "We confess the primal religious will of the German people. Through this leadership we believe we can find the road to salvation (Heil) for ourselves and our people. ...The struggle between Christianity and the German faith in the German soul is thus an event of unexpected depth." And among the officially announced objectives of the GFM was: "Therefore necessarily the German Faith Movement denies Christianity. It rejects Christianity in every shape or form, because its fundamental principles contradict the laws of life of people and race, and are alien to what is intrinsically German." Yiri doesn't like it, and won't accept it. -- The Ice Floe of Larry Bickford {amd,decwrl,sun,idi,ittvax}!qubix!lab You can't settle the issue until you've settled how to settle the issue.