wisen@inmet.UUCP (01/06/84)
#N:inmet:6400081:000:1052 inmet!wisen Jan 4 13:18:00 1984 Seen in a Paperback Booksmith store yesterday: ______________________________________________ | Sorry, we cannot accept anything over a | | $20 bill without a picture ID. | |____________________________________________| Golly, what's the world coming to, when they won't even take CASH without identification? My temptation is to return to that store, get $90 worth of books, and present them with a $100. bill and no ID. If they refuse the bill, then they must return the books to the shelves without my help. If enough people do this, they may realize that some people believe that picture IDs should be used for serious purposes, or for nations such as South Africa. The problem with this plan is that I can't think of $90 worth of anything that Paperback Booksmith carries and that I want. Perhaps 22 copies of "1984"? :-) . |\ ------Bruce Wisentaner /| \ cca!ima!inmet / | \ } !wisen o / | \ harpo!inmet ^_. _/___|===== O\/`O \_______/] \_(
ss@wivax.UUCP (Sid Shapiro) (01/06/84)
Speaking what is this world coming to and cash, I once tried to rent a
parking space from the government (contracting at a government site
and needed a place to park). I tried to pay the small amount in cash.
I was refused. The government would only accept a check!
I can think of a good reason that it was not accepted (cash is too
easy to misplace...), but I was so outraged that the gov't would not
accept as payment the gov't's own money that I called the attorney
general and asked about the printing on a bill that says "This note is
legal tender for all debts public and private". I was told somthing
like (it has been a few years) that that saying means only that I can
offer it in good faith, but it doesn't have to be accepted! Sheesh!
--
Sid Shapiro -- Wang Institute of Graduate Studies
[cadmus, decvax, linus, apollo, bbncca, sco]!wivax!ss
ss.Wang-Inst@Csnet-Relay
(617)649-9731ark@rabbit.UUCP (Andrew Koenig) (01/07/84)
"Sorry, we cannot accept anything over a $20 bill without a picture ID" Apparently these people are unaware of the concept of legal tender. It is ILLEGAL to refuse to accept cash for any purchase. I suggest that if you really want to make a scene, you buy $90 worth of books, present them with a $100 bill, refuse to give identification, and, if they refuse to accept the bill, call the police.
whp@cbnap.UUCP (01/08/84)
Actually I don't think they have the right to refuse to accept cash. On all MY money is printed "this note is legal tenter for all debts, public and private". I've seen this sort of thing before, though. Ever try to rent a car with cash? Perhaps if these people don't like using money to settle debts, then they should print up their own! W. H. Pollock
dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (01/08/84)
I assume the bookstore won't accept bills larger than $20 because
U.S. currency is relatively easy to counterfeit. The place to direct
the blame is not the bookstore (they're just trying to make money
after all), but your government for not having come out with
new currency by now. The reason for the I.D., of course, is to give
them someone to go after if the bill proves to be a fake.
Dave Sherman
Toronto, Canada (our currency may look like Monopoly money to you
with all those colours, but at least it's not as
easy to copy!)
--
{allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsrgv!daveguy@rlgvax.UUCP (Guy Harris) (01/08/84)
<see net.news.b for the fix to this bug>
Another possibility is to buy what seems to be about $20, and if it goes
over pick books out and try again. Repeat until you've bought all the books
you wanted.
Still another possibility is not to buy anything there; both policies should
also include sending a letter to Paperback Booksmith telling them why their
policy is a pain and why it will cost them in the long run.
"Sorry, you can't buy more than $20 worth of stuff without
a picture ID."
Guy Harris
{seismo,ihnp4,allegra}!rlgvax!guyrpw3@fortune.UUCP (01/09/84)
#R:inmet:6400081:fortune:6700023:000:937
fortune!rpw3 Jan 8 22:01:00 1984
Cash is the ONLY form of payment which someone is obligated to accept.
Notice that the phrase "tender" does indeed mean "offer". A friend of
mine badly scared an Atlanta Sears-Roebuck manager a few years ago
when he went to pick up a refrigerator. After they had loaded it in his
truck (yes, they were that silly) ((but before he drove away)) he
"tendered" payment in cash, exact change. The manager refused to take it.
The friend said something like, "I will offer to pay you one more time,
in legal tender, then I will drive away with my new refrigerator you
have given me for free." The manager took the cash.
Not sure that proves anything, but it's a fun true story.
(Of course, I don't think it says anything about the merchant being
required to make change.)
Rob Warnock
UUCP: {sri-unix,amd70,hpda,harpo,ihnp4,allegra}!fortune!rpw3
DDD: (415)595-8444
USPS: Fortune Systems Corp, 101 Twin Dolphins Drive, Redwood City, CA 94065chuqui@cae780.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) (01/09/84)
The real problem with large bills is not counterfeiting, it is robbery! One of the more popular tricks in the robbery trade is to ask for change for a large bill. If you are turned down, you know that it isn't worth hitting the store, and if you do get the change, you can get your bill back with a good return on the investment (:->). This leads to the second problem: Since stores are very worried about being robbed, they do what the can to minimize their losses (in almost all cases, standard procedure is to give them what they want, no questions asked, and not to risk your neck). This means that most of a stores money goes into a one way safe or lockbox quickly. In most stores, there is rarely more than a couple of hundred dollars in a register at any time (all large bills, checks, and charge slips are removed on a regular business) and in high risk stores (like 7-11) the figure is closer to $20. Thats the REAL reason you can't get change for large bills... They don't have it! chuq -- From the dungeons of the warlock: Chuqui the Plaid Note the new address: fortune!nsc!chuqui
whm@arizona.UUCP (Bill Mitchell) (01/10/84)
I once heard that there's some sort of law concerning how many coins
can be used to pay a debt. I believe it was something like more than
twenty coins don't constitute a legal payment if the person doesn't
want to take it. Does anybody know for sure?
Bill Mitchell
whm.arizona@rand-relay
{kpno,mcnc,utah-cs}!arizona!whmbhyde@inmet.UUCP (01/10/84)
#R:inmet:6400081:inmet:6400082:000:388 inmet!bhyde Jan 9 21:42:00 1984 Now just because you want to buy something doesn't mean you have managed to enter a debt relationship with these Booksmith people, so I wouldn't pay much attention to the documentation ( This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private. ) on your money. I have heard of organizations that only take checks, or credit cards so as to ease security or book keeping. ben hyde
crl@pur-phy.UUCP (Charles LaBrec) (01/10/84)
I've known many stores (usually small) that won't accept > $20 bills at all. I guess $50's and $100's are more prone to counterfeiting. Anyone know for sure? Charles LaBrec UUCP: pur-ee!Physics:crl, purdue!Physics:crl INTERNET: crl @ pur-phy.UUCP
kds@intelca.UUCP (Ken Shoemaker) (01/11/84)
I remember a few years ago that someone at Northwestern Univ. paid
his tuition in pennies, and after some kind of legal battle they
were forced to accept it that way...
--
Ken Shoemaker, Intel, Santa Clara, Ca.
{pur-ee,hplabs,ucbvax!amd70,ogcvax!omsvax}!intelca!kdschuqui@cae780.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) (01/11/84)
Remember Larry Flynt? When he was being fined 10,000 a day for contempt of
court, he started paying in 1 dollar bills. The court stopped that one
fairly quickly by making him count the money for a bailiff every day to
prove it was all there. They may have to break down and take the money if
you push hard enough, but they don't have to make it easy on you! :->
--
-- Diogenes looked in and laughed--
From the dungeons of the warlock Chuqui the Plaid
Note the new address: {fortune,menlo70}!nsc!chuqui
~And as I lived my role I swore I'd sell my soul for one love
who would stand by me and give me back the gift of laughter~
- Winslow Leechpbw@cbosgd.UUCP (Paul Westerfield) (01/11/84)
Just as a note: One summer I worked for Stop-n-Go (convenient store) and they had a nothing >$20 policy. The reason here, though, was that the amount of change kept in the register was kept very small to avoid losing very much to robbery (which is common in these type of stores). Change for a $20 on a small purchase could easily wipe out most of the change you had, depending on how close you were keeping the drawer. This is not a defense of inconvenience, just some additional data. -P. B. Westerfield (APR - CB BTL)
joyce@ihuxp.UUCP (joyce) (01/11/84)
It's surprising that no one has brought up the point that the store may not be able to make change for large bills, especially if a few people in a row come in with $50 or $100 bills. Many places try not to keep large amounts of money on hand to discourage thieves.
mazur@inmet.UUCP (01/12/84)
#R:inmet:6400081:inmet:6400083:000:181
inmet!mazur Jan 10 19:09:00 1984
Apparently more than 25 pennies are *not* legal tender, as some people
find out when they bring in their bag of pennies (somehow they're never
rolled).
- Beth Mazur esj@ihuxl.UUCP (Natty Dread I) (01/12/84)
Re: NU tuition in pennies. I was there at the time. I remember the "Daily Northwestern" giving it front page coverage. I think he was protesting the annual tuition increase. I don't remember the outcome. ihnp4!ihuxl!esj
david@randvax.ARPA (David Shlapak) (01/14/84)
J---s C----t (I've been reading net.religion too long!), what is in fact this world coming to? Have we all become so paranoid that any demand that we identify ourselves becomes cause for "Big-Brother-itis" and references to South Africa??? Has anybody out there ever heard of a practice known as "counterfeiting?" That's when someone other than the government prints "funny money" and tries to use it as "legal tender," which it definitely is not. Strangely enough, most practicioners of this art don't waste much time with singles, fives or tens...they turn out the big stuff -- bones (hundreds) and half-bones (guess). Often, businesses trying to prevent being taken by said individuals will mark such a bill in a manner as to identify when it came in the store and who brought it. Now tell me, all you pseudo-civil-libertarians, what is so all-fired black and conspiratorial about that???? Note to the fella who suggested calling the cops if a business refuses your money: Yes, cash does carry a legend reading "This note is legal tender for all debts public and private." However, places of business are private, NOT public, property and the proprietors thereof reserve the right to refuse service to anyone they so desire, provided such refusal is not made on racial or other similar grounds. Thus, by turning down your money, they are merely exercising their rights not to serve you. All the cop would do is giggle at you. He's got better things to do with his time than worry about your hurt feelings and all too easily bruised sense of injustice and oppression. Sheesh!!! --- das
ucbesvax.max@ucbcad.UUCP (01/14/84)
#R:inmet:6400081:ucbesvax:6000013:000:217 ucbesvax!max Jan 7 17:22:00 1984 (A blank line or two just in case) I was under the impression that the declaration "legal tender for all debts..." carried some legal force. Can any netters with legal background comment authoritatively on this?
davy@ecn-ee.UUCP (01/16/84)
#R:utcsrgv:-306200:ecn-ee:16300002:000:278 ecn-ee!davy Jan 15 15:05:00 1984 I heard a few months back that the U.S. *IS* going to come out with colored "monopoly" money like Canada (and many other countries) has. I don't recall when this was supposed to occur, but I think it was fairly soon (i.e. next five years). --Dave Curry decvax!pur-ee!davy
mike@erix.UUCP (Mike Williams XT/DU) (01/17/84)
As a dumb European I always have problems with American money. All the notes (sorry bills) look the same to me. Not only are they of the same colour, but also the same size. Also why is there no 50 cent coin? decvax!mcvax!enea!erix!mike PS Swiss coins are even worse, they all look the same and their size has nothing to do with their value!
ken@ihuxq.UUCP (01/19/84)
---
erix!mike in Stockholm asks why there's no $0.50 coin.
Probably because they don't fit in any vending machines. But also
because they're regarded as just too big. In Denmark, the 5 0re
and 5 kroner pieces are enormous. (I assume Sweden also has large
coins.) Neither would catch on in the US, although I personally like
a nice big coin--it looks like real money and has a feeling of
ancient history to it.
--
*** ***
JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** *****
****** ****** 19 Jan 84 [30 Nivose An CXCII]
ken perlow ***** *****
(312)979-7261 ** ** ** **
..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken *** ***amigo2@ihuxq.UUCP (01/20/84)
Ken Perlow says that there is no U.S. $.50 coin. Sorry Ken, but there is (or at least was a couple of years ago). It had John Kennedy's profile on the obverse and the U.S. Shield supported by an eagle on the reverse (one of the best designs for a coin reverse of any that I know of). Anyway, the original question was "Why is there not a fifty-cent *note*?" John Hobson AT&T Bell Labs Naperville, IL (312) 979-7293 ihnp4!ihuxq!amigo2
wkh@hou5a.UUCP (01/21/84)
An earlier item asked why there was no 50-cent US note. Well, there was, once upon a time. At the outbreak of the Civil War, people began hoarding their gold and silver. As a result, all coins quickly disappeared from circulation. Day-to-day business nearly ground to a halt due to the lack of small change. Dozens of substitutes appeared, from barter to paper IOU's and even postage stamps. Finally the US gov't relieved the chaos by printing millions of notes in small denominations, known as "Fractional Currency". Denominations were 3, 5, 10, 15, 25, and 50 cents. They were produced into the late 1870's and remained in circulation as late as the turn of the century. They are still legal tender, although most are worth more than face value to a collector.
guy@rlgvax.UUCP (Guy Harris) (01/21/84)
> Anyway, the original question was "Why is there not a fifty-cent *note*?" To quote from an article which asked about money with 50 cent denominations, and to which Ken Perlow was replying: > Also why is there no 50 cent coin? Guy Harris {seismo,ihnp4,allegra}!rlgvax!guy
jlw@ariel.UUCP (J.WOOD) (01/21/84)
These sub-dollar amount paper bills were referred to as shin plasters according to my sainted grand mother. Joseph L. Wood, III AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Holmdel (201) 834-3759 ariel!jlw
ken@ihuxq.UUCP (01/23/84)
----
Gee, I guess I gave the impression that I thought there was no
US $0.50 coin. I meant to say (thought I did) that it was not
at all *popular* (because it doesn't fit in vending machines, etc),
not that it was simply not at all. It ought not to exist, since it is
too big to carry around yet not big enough to have that fine, antique
"pieces of eight" look (like the Ike or Morgan).
There ought to be a $0.50 note, even a $0.25 note, as these would be
even cheaper to manufacture than those zinc (or whatever) sandwiches now
in circulation. In fact, you could do away with coins altogether... :-)
--
*** ***
JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** *****
****** ****** 23 Jan 84 [4 Pluviose An CXCII]
ken perlow ***** *****
(312)979-7261 ** ** ** **
..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken *** ***jonab@sdcrdcf.UUCP (01/25/84)
In article <526@ihuxq.UUCP> ken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow) writes: >---- >There ought to be a $0.50 note, even a $0.25 note, as these would be >even cheaper to manufacture than those zinc (or whatever) sandwiches now >in circulation. In fact, you could do away with coins altogether... :-) Gee, then what do all of us video game enthusiasts do? ;-} -- Jon Biggar {allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,sdccsu3,trw-unix}!sdcrdcf!jonab
andrew@inmet.UUCP (01/26/84)
#R:hou5a:-49500:inmet:6400086:000:174 inmet!andrew Jan 24 09:39:00 1984 There is in fact a 50-cent coin, although it's not widely circulated. The current design dates to 1965 (or so) and features former president John F. Kennedy on the obverse.