dsg@mhuxi.UUCP (David S. Green) (11/08/84)
From: KEN WOLMAN Bell Communications Research Livingston, NJ whuxe!ktw (201) 740-4565 ******************************** With regard to the Halloween (and now THANKSGIVING debate), there is a serious problem there, and I'm not positive it's been touched on: namely the Two Civilizations problem outlined by Mordecai Kaplan, and which forms the basis for Reconstructionism. Understand I do not identify myself with that movement; I used to, if only because the synagogue I originally attended in Montclair (yes, I too drove) made me feel welcome, and the Weltanschaaung ($10 word, probably misspelled) of the movement allowed me to assume a less-than-total or traditional position on most Jewish issues: kashrut, Shabbos, even God (yes, I still prefer to spell it out because I don't feel comfortable with treating the visual/verbal nominalization of a Being as The Being Himself; to me that approaches idolatry). As I understand Kaplan, having tried to read "Judaism as a Civilization" at least three times, but having read some of his disciples, the problem with any kind of post-Emancipation Judaism is that it the Jew has NO CHOICE but to live in a non-Jewish secular world. America, if it is not (yet) a "Christian Nation," is not a Jewish nation, either; any more than is the UK, France, Italy, or Sweden. You are inevitably brought into contact with Jews of all observance levels, and with Gentile ideas, food, culture, etc. The problem becomes living as a Jew in such a society (which also includes modern nontheocratic Israel). Okay, you can withdraw to Williamsburg or Borough Park and never leave: as I understand those communities, many people never do because all necessary means of earning a living and sustaining one's physical and spiritual life are there. Or, failing total self-ghettoization in a 20th Century Judenstrasse, one can work and travel to work through goyisher streets in the company of other observant Jews, i.e., on the private buses from Boro Park or Monsey which enable you to avoid contact with the outside. But for most of us, those are no viable options. As I understand even Modern (Hirschian) Orthodoxy and right-wing Conservatism, there is an effort to live IN the world but not be OF it. Or to paraphrase the much-maligned Shylock (who Shakespeare understood and portrayed far too well to be written off as a simple anti- Semite): I'll walk with you, talk with you, and do business with you; but I won't eat with you, drink with you, or pray with you. Surprisingly, and in light of the bad press he has among Orthodox and most committed Conservatives, Kaplan probably would find that sentiment appropriate as one solution to the problem of living in two civilizations. Which brings us to Halloween. Look, folks, it means ALL HALLOWS EVE, the day preceding ALL SAINTS DAY. It's CHRISTIAN. Or at least it USED to be. In fact, it's been co-opted by a secular society that is not much kinder to believing Christians than to believing Jews, and which has reduced Christmas--a day of some small note to most gentiles--to a three-month extravaganza of worshipping before the Great Idol of Shah-Ping. Secular society (humanistic or not) has a numbing effect on most holidays, religious or not. They are opportunities not for reflection or family time, but for spending money at malls. Does anyone really notice or care that Halloween has Christian roots? Do any Christians observe it as a religious holiday, thereby effectively barring it from Jewish notice? Or --and There I Go Again--are at least some of the people who get high-and-mighty about Halloween as anti-Jewish simply playing the frummer-than-thou game because of their own discomfort with the level of their Jewishness? The refusal of one net correspondent to ANSWER THE DOOR on Halloween suggests the kind of mind-set that might be better served in a community like Boro Park or Monsey, where having only Jewish neighbors is a great convenience like having a dispose-all and dishwasher. It's not a religious solution: it's a pietistic solution which avoids confrontation with the secular world by pretending it doens't exist. The problem extends beyond Halloween and into unarguably secular holidays. When did Thanksgiving take on religious connotations that were germane only to Christians? Because the New England settlers were Protestants, are committed Jews (whether observant or not) expected to treat Thanksgiving as sub rosa goyishkeit and ignore it? Or was Kaplan right (I am in fact answering by the tone of the question): are Thanksgiving, July 4, and some others in fact part of Civil Religion which crosses sectarian boundaries and finds appropriate expression in the prayers of all faiths? Ignoring and/or turning one's back on secular holidays (of which Halloween is in fact a prime example by now) is a way of dealing with the Two Civilizations problem. But it seems at first glance a bit silly.
dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (11/09/84)
In article <228@mhuxi.UUCP> ktw@whuxe.UUCP (Ken Wolman) writes: || || are at least some of the people who get || high-and-mighty about Halloween as anti-Jewish simply playing || the frummer-than-thou game because of their own discomfort with || the level of their Jewishness? The refusal of one net || correspondent to ANSWER THE DOOR on Halloween suggests the || kind of mind-set that might be better served in a community || like Boro Park or Monsey, where having only Jewish neighbors is || a great convenience like having a dispose-all and dishwasher. || It's not a religious solution: it's a pietistic solution || which avoids confrontation with the secular world by pretending || it doesn't exist. As the net correspondent in question, let me reply to this point. My objections to Halloween aren't based only on the religious or pagan element. I object to the whole concept of kids being allowed to show up on my door and demand candy. It's not that I'm cheap; we probably spend much more money and time putting together Mishloach Manos plates for friends and neighbours on Purim than most people spend in handy out treats on October 31. It's the principle involved. I certainly don't pretend the secular world doesn't exist. But I have no need for certain of its customs which I find objectionable. Ken goes on to mention July 4 (equivalent here is Canada Day, July 1.) I have no problem with celebrations of such days, as long as they don't take precedence in children's minds over the Jewish holidays, which have so much more to offer. Dave Sherman Toronto -- { allegra cornell decvax ihnp4 linus utzoo }!utcsrgv!dave
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/13/84)
Since I am the other party which does not answer the door on Halloween, I suppose I should also respond. I'm pretty much in agreement with Dave. The only difference might be in degree. The major reason for me is that I refuse to be a participant in something I find objectionable.
elb@hou5e.UUCP (Ellen Bart) (11/15/84)
(I am posting this as a followup because I still can't get postnews to work --any suggestions on that score are welcome) I got a few letters in response to my posting on Thanksgiving which deserve some additional comments on the net. I stated that I did not participate in Halloween or Christmas or New Years but did believe that Judaism (Orthodox included) allowed for the celebration of Thanksgiving. The letters I got brought up two main points. The first is that regardless of its origins, Halloween is now a secular holiday and therefore should fall in the same category as Thanksgiving. I disagree. I think the origins are not merely important in the determination of permissability but are crucial. One of the main reasons for this was actually brought up by a non-Jew who asked me about the Jewish prohibition against participating in activities which are "the laws of the [non-Jewish] nations". A discussion with an Orthodox Rabbi confirmed my impression that this prohibition refers to practices of non-Jews which were (or are) related to their religious celebrations or worships. The origins of Halloween and New Years are religious. The current state of these celebrations cannot change that. The origins of Thanksgiving are secular - a harvest festival if you like. It was never tied to a particular religion or religious ritual. If I then want to use this day off from work to meet with my family and eat traditional Thanksgiving lasagna (a long story, but that's what my family always eats), then there should be no problem according to Jewish law. Any questions or comments are welcome Ellen Bart