judah@hou2h.UUCP (J.KAMINETSKY) (10/31/84)
Is there anything antisemitic or unjewish about Haloween?
smb@ulysses.UUCP (Steven Bellovin) (10/31/84)
> From: judah@hou2h.UUCP (J.KAMINETSKY) > Subject: Haloween and Jews > Message-ID: <673@hou2h.UUCP> > Date: Wed, 31-Oct-84 14:13:23 EST > Is there anything antisemitic or unjewish about Haloween? My (orthodox) Hebrew school teacher used to warn us against going trick-or- treating, since she stated -- correctly -- that Halloween was really "Hallow Eve", or the day before "All Saints Day". She therefore felt that it was a Christian holiday. However, she didn't go far enough. Halloween is really pagan in origin; it was absorbed into the Christian calendar under a Christian name. Not that knowing that would have made her feel any better... My own view, though, is that despite its non-Jewish antecedents, Halloween as celebrated in America is a secular holiday, devoid of religious meaning. (Almost) no one here attaches any significance to pumpkins, witches, etc.; it's just a way to have a fun time. Symbols evolve, too.
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/01/84)
I agree with what Steve has written regarding the pagan origins of Halloween. This is a documented fact. I must disagree however that it is harmless and innocent fun. Torah decrees that we are not to adopt the ways of the pagans. We are to be a holy people. Assimilating into such pagan-derived practices is a direct transgression of Torah.
elb@hou5e.UUCP (11/01/84)
Halloween has its roots in "all hallow's eve" which is related in some way to "all saint's day". It is thus a holiday (as in holy day) of a religion or belief system quite foreign to judaism. The fact that its present observance seem to be unrelated to its origins cannot alter the fact that it was a religious holiday and therefore should not be celebrated by jews. ellen bart
ecl@hocsj.UUCP (11/01/84)
Reference: <673@hou2h.UUCP> Halloween is All Hallows' Eve. All Hallows' Eve is a Christian holiday. Halloween was regarded by earlier (more superstitious) Christians as a time when the Devil and his minions (demons, witches, etc.) roamed the world. (Other nights were also believed to be the Devil's-- for example, Walpurgis Night (April 30).) So in this sense Halloween is a "Christian" holiday, though in exactly the opposite way that, say, Christmas is. (St.) Valentine's Day is also a Christian holiday, and in many places (including Israel), New Year's Eve (St. Stephen's (?) Eve) is also considered a Christian holiday. My objections to Halloween would be more along the lines that I don't think children should be encouraged to believe that it's all right to go to stranger's homes and demand a treat. Now to mention, it's not really safe any more. A better approach would be to encourage costume parties at other times of the year--kids (and adults) love to dress up. (Comments on Halloween derived from readings on medieval witchcraft and such; also from old horror movies in attempts to determine the accuracy of their claims. Comment on New Year's Eve drawn from personal experience--we had great difficulty in having a "New Year's Eve" party in the King David Hotel in Jerusalem because of the rules against celebrating Christian holidays there vis-a-vis their certificate of kashrut. Since one member of our group had a birthday on January 1, and the passport to prove it, they eventually relented and gave us a room in the basement for the party. Now in the U.S., hardly anyone thinks of New Year's Eve as non-secular.) Evelyn C. Leeper ...ihnp4!hocsj!ecl
dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (11/01/84)
My personal feeling is that we should not celebrate or be involved
in Hallowe'en, not only because of its Christian and/or pagan origins,
but because making a big thing out of it denies the
importance of the Jewish holidays. Typically the kids who
want to go out trick-or-treating are at least partially in a
nonobservant environment (e.g., they go to public school).
Steve Bellovin observes that it's just a way to "have a fun time".
If kids want holidays to have a fun time (and that should certainly
be encouraged), why not encourage them to have fun with Sukkos
(decorating a sukkah), Pesach (searching for chometz, hiding/finding
the afikomen), Purim (dressing up, giving mishloach manos),
Chanukah, Tu BiShvat, Lag BaOmer and Simchas Torah?
Judaism has so many things that are geared towards children. To
look elsewhere for "a fun time" while not giving your children
the opportunity to enjoy everything Judaism has to offer is to
denigrate the validity of Judaism as a way of life.
Dave Sherman
Toronto
--
{ allegra cornell decvax ihnp4 linus utzoo }!utcsrgv!davemis@spuxll.UUCP (Meyer Steinberg) (11/01/84)
If Haloween is anti-Jewish I don't Know. But I do know that every year Shuls and other Jewish building are vandalized on Haloween and Mischief Night. (It just happened again this year in Brooklyn ,NY. Eggs are thrown at people with a kipah on. Jewish cemetaries are desecrated. Also Haloween includes other unclean aspects, such as socery, witchcraft and necromancy, all forbidden by the Torah. I believe that a holy person should look down upon Haloween, and take no part of it. This includes non-jews, for they also suffer uneeded damage caused by vandals.
bds@homxa.UUCP (B.STERMAN) (11/01/84)
There is another piece to this puzzle about the origins of
Halloween and it's relationship to Judaism. In times of very old
(somewhere in the 700's or so) there began an ancient Teutonic
rite called Walpurgisnacht, when the town would rise up to chase
away the demons. This custom evolved, strangely enough, from the
Roman fertility rites of not getting married during the month of
May. In fact, some scholars (and I use that term quite loosely)
have suggested that this is the basis for the customs of the Omer
and Lag B'Omer. Namely one month of not getting married, culminating
in a day of running around in the fields with bows and arrows,
(the same thing that the Early Geemans did when chasing away their
witches!). The theory hardly stands up, but it's interesting
trivia nonetheless.
For more details see the encyclopedia Judaica article on Lag
B'Omer and the article by that same author brought down in the
bibliography.
Baruch Sterman
ihnp4!homxa!bdsrobison@eosp1.UUCP (Tobias D. Robison) (11/02/84)
If you view Halloween as a secular holiday, there is still the fascinating problem of what to do when trick-or-treat night falls on the Sabbath. On these years, our children have not gone out. They cannot carry, and the spirit of trick-or-treat does not seem to us compatible with the spirit of Sabbath (although the idea of going to visit neighbors, and even being offered refreshements, should not be a problem.) Halloween, viewed as a secular holiday, is extremely materialistic. I've always found it to be a good political indicator -- Democrats do well in the elections when there is lots of candy flowing in the streets. - Toby Robison (not Robinson!) allegra!eosp1!robison or: decvax!ittvax!eosp1!robison or (emergency): princeton!eosp1!robison
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/04/84)
Isn't Purim the time of year for Jewish children to dress in costumes and adults to have masquerade balls?
yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/04/84)
Hear, hear. Well spoken (written).
robison@eosp1.UUCP (Tobias D. Robison) (11/05/84)
Although the Torah requires us to avoid the ways of pagans, there is some question where to raw the line. The only way to avoid extensive influences from the secular society we live in, is to pretty much withdraw from secular life. For those Jews who decide not to do this, and there are many who are deeply observant, one cannot just arbitrarily look right and left at things and brand them pagan. As an example of what I believe are serious differenes in degree, the new year holiday celebrated January 1st in this country is seriously pagan (not just secular), and dangerous influence which religious people (Christian as well as Jewish) should avoid. This holiday features an emphasis on licentiousness, and various customs and fears (concerning repentance) that seem to deny the existence of G-d (by trivializing the process of repentance). I think that my children can participate in halloween without suffering any pagan, non-Jewish influence. I don't think they can safely participate in new year's; for this holiday, they must be carefully warned. - Toby Robison (not Robinson!) allegra!eosp1!robison or: decvax!ittvax!eosp1!robison or (emergency): princeton!eosp1!robison
david@varian.UUCP (David Brown) (11/20/84)
> So in this sense Halloween is a "Christian" holiday, though in exactly the > opposite way that, say, Christmas is. (St.) Valentine's Day is also a > Christian holiday, and in many places (including Israel), New Year's Eve > (St. Stephen's (?) Eve) is also considered a Christian holiday. This is something that has puzzled me (but not enough to do any research) since I spent a year at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem in 1972. On New Year's Eve, all the Israelis in my dorm celebrated what they called "Sylvester" -- the celebrations were definitely secular (let's get together and drink...), though not as heavy-duty as in this country, as the next day was an ordinary school/work day. Does anyone know what Sylvester is -- where did the name come from and how did it come to be celebrated in Israel? -- David Brown (415) 945-2199 Varian Instruments 2700 Mitchell Dr. Walnut Creek, Ca. 94598 {zehntel,amd,fortune,resonex}!varian!david