rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob]) (11/17/84)
Mr Esan comments on a fragment of my submission: [BB] > To paraphrase that good old Hellenist Jewish Doctor (Luke) > "The measure you give is the measure you get back." [DE] Just for the record, I grew up in a Hebrew Day School under a poster that said in Hebrew, "in the measure that you measure others, they measure you," (bimidah she-atah moded modedim otkhah). This is from Proverbs (mishleh).Luke may have said that and many other things, but he was paraphrasing Solomon. BTW, Rev. Brown, keep on pouring your Christian thought into the Jewish net. The more you try to explain your religion, the more I can appreciate the morning blessing of "shelo asani goy", blessing G-d that I was not created a non-Jew. ********************************************************************* ["Rev" Brown replies] Touche' Mr Esan. I know much of the teaching of Jesus (who Luke was recording (second hand)) comes from the Hebrew Scriptures. Chain reference notes in the text refer me to citations in Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Psalms from Luke 6:38 but no reference to Proverbs. Could you please cite your reference ? Also Touchy Mr Esan. You and Mr BenDavid give new meaning to the word paranoid in that you think I (identifiably Christian on net.religion.jewish ) am the equivalent of a "body snatcher" who is agressively on the hunt for Jews to convert through deception or whatever method works. (I keep a set of brass knuckles and thumbscrews hanging from the gun-rack of my pick-up at all times...) Also a tad prideful Mr Esan ? Didn't the Pharisees also have a similar prayer thanking God that they were also not women ? I think the infamous Saul of Tarsus expressed your prayer with a little more humility and in a little more positive vein " I am what I am by the Grace of God." Further, I am not a Reverend. Perhaps you can get Mr BenDavid to explain about the different branches of Christianity...not all use that term :-) Bob Brown {...ihnp4!akgua!rjb}
mis@spuxll.UUCP (Meyer Steinberg) (11/19/84)
Mr. Brown claims that certain people who have responded are "paranoid". How can Mr. Brown say such a thing, when in the very same posting he start quoting Saul of Tarsis (Paul) and tries to say how Paul's prayers are better than the Pharisees prayer of. In all Mr. Brown's remarks I see negation towards Judiasm.
de@moscom.UUCP (Dave Esan) (11/28/84)
> > Mr Esan comments on a fragment of my submission: > > [BB] > > To paraphrase that good old Hellenist Jewish Doctor (Luke) > > "The measure you give is the measure you get back." > > [DE] > Just for the record, I grew up in a Hebrew Day School under a poster > that said in Hebrew, "in the measure that you measure others, they measure > you," (bimidah she-atah moded modedim otkhah). This is from Proverbs (mishleh).Luke may have said that and many other things, but he was paraphrasing > Solomon. > > BTW, Rev. Brown, keep on pouring your Christian thought into the Jewish net. > The more you try to explain your religion, the more I can appreciate the > morning blessing of "shelo asani goy", blessing G-d that I was not created a > non-Jew. > > ********************************************************************* > > ["Rev" Brown replies] > > Touche' Mr Esan. I know much of the teaching of Jesus (who Luke was > recording (second hand)) comes from the Hebrew Scriptures. > > Chain reference notes in the text refer me to citations in Isaiah, > Jeremiah, and Psalms from Luke 6:38 but no reference to Proverbs. > Could you please cite your reference ? > As I noted, I grew up under a poster. When I get the chance I shall try to find the reference. After 15+ years my memory for details has dulled. > Also Touchy Mr Esan. You and Mr BenDavid give new meaning to the word > paranoid in that you think I (identifiably Christian on > net.religion.jewish ) am the equivalent > of a "body snatcher" who is agressively on the hunt for Jews to convert > through deception or whatever method works. (I keep a set of brass > knuckles and thumbscrews hanging from the gun-rack of my pick-up at > all times...) > Mr. Brown, just because one is paranoid does not mean they are really after you. You obviously have no concept of the Jewish experience during the last 1800 years and the Christian love that has been so lavishly given to us. I have a father who can tell you of the annual pogroms on Easter, Christmas, and any time the peasants were a bit bored and drunk. I had a grandfather with two iron crosses for bravery in the first world war expelled by his country for his religion. I grew up with the taunts of neighbors who told me that I was going to burn in the flames of hell forever because I did not believe. And this in the civilized 20th century. I didn't trust you when you came after me with the whip, the thumbscrew, the knout -- and I trust you even less now when you arrive with a smile and a handshake. The method changes, the purpose is the same. If you sincerely want to learn, learn with respect for our institutions and do not impose your ethnocentric views on another group. > Also a tad prideful Mr Esan ? Didn't the Pharisees also have a similar > prayer thanking God that they were also not women ? > You bet I'm a bit prideful. I am a descendant of the Pharisees whose contributions 2000 years ago helped form most of modern Judaism. The question about the prayer about not being a women has been explained on the net and I shall not repeat it. Bringing it up here shows both ignorance and ethnocenterism. Ask if you don't know, don't tell me what you think the answer should be when you have no basis for the answer. > I think the infamous Saul of Tarsus expressed your prayer with a little > more humility and in a little more positive vein > > " I am what I am by the Grace of God." > I doubt that a good Jew would have said I am what I am, since that is the name that God told Moses to call Him by (see the burning bush). No one would appropriate God's name to refer to anything as mundane as himself. The prayer used today is positive thanking God that we were given additional opportunities to perform his commandments, because we are different. > Further, I am not a Reverend. Perhaps you can get Mr BenDavid to > explain about the different branches of Christianity...not all use > that term :-) > Sorry, I used the term that I had seen posted on the net. I am aware of the different branches of Christianity, and realize that not all use the term.