gergely@dreacad.UUCP (gergely) (12/04/84)
.kosher line to be eaten.
Upon my briss I was given the name of Arieh Avrom Mordecai Ben Nochem Hersh.
Yes it definitely is a long name, but that is not the problem. Many a time
a rabbi has told me that one of my names, namely Avrom or Abram, is not an
accepted valid Hebrew name.
According to Genesis, XVII, v 5, "Neither shall thy name any more be called
Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for the father of a multitude of
nations have I made thee"[1], is often what I have been quoted by many a
rabbi. The problem is one of interpretation it would appear. The way I
understand it, his name was changed, but that does not say anything about
anyone else named Abram.
I would appreciate any enlightment on this subject of the validity of the
name Avrom. Please feel free to mail your replies directly to me and I will
post a summary in the short future, or maybe this could become a valid
discussion on the net but probably should not be.
[1] Dr. J. H. Hertz, C.H., (editor), "The Pentateuch and Haftorahs", Second
Edition, London, Soncino Press, 5728--1967.
Many thanks on this subject.
--
- Peter J. Gergely, Defence Research Establishment Atlantic
P.O. Box 1012, Dartmouth, N.S. B2Y 3Z7 Canada (POSTAL)
...!{dalcs,garfield,utcsrgv}!dreacad!gergely (USENET)
G.GERGELY@SU-SCORE (ARPANET)dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (12/11/84)
An interesting question. One would think that, if Avram is
not a legal name, Yaakov (Jacob) should not be legal either,
yet obviously it is.
Does it perhaps depend on the specific wording of the pasuk?
Dave Sherman
Toronto
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{ allegra cornell decvax ihnp4 linus utzoo }!utcsrgv!davemis@spuxll.UUCP (Meyer Steinberg) (12/11/84)
I think whoever told you this thing is making a mistake. Jacob also was told that he wont be called Jacob but "Israel" instead. (Genesis 35:10). Shall we say Jacob is an Illegal name? The phrase you quoted means specifically to Abraham the Patriarch. I know a few people with the name Avrom. If people can have a name like Beryl or Zundel or other yiddish names you certainly can have a name from the Bible. Meyer Steinberg.
hbb@hou5a.UUCP (H.B.Braude) (12/12/84)
With regard to the use of the name Yaackov but not that of "Abram,"
we find that during the period of time that Yaackov thought that his
son Yoseph was dead, the Torah refers to him as Yaackov. It is possible
that since the Torah used his original name subsequent to the change of
his name (to Yisroel,) then we can use it as well.
--
Harlan B. Braude
{most "backbone" sites}!hou5a!hbbteitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (12/17/84)
> An interesting question. One would think that, if Avram is > not a legal name, Yaakov (Jacob) should not be legal either, > yet obviously it is. > > Does it perhaps depend on the specific wording of the pasuk? > > Dave Sherman > Toronto > -- > { allegra cornell decvax ihnp4 linus utzoo }!utcsrgv!dave The Torah specifically states when changing Avraham's "V'lo yikareh shimcha Avram ki i'm Avraham ..." ( I think that's the exact wording ) And you shall not be called Avram, but rather Avraham ... When the Torah relates the story of Yaakov and Yisrael, this doesn't appear. There was no prohibition set down against either name. In fact the commentaries in many places point out the the names refer to the different attributes of the Jewish nation ( because at times we are called B'nei Yisrael and others Beis Yaakov ). Eliyahu Teitz