yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid) (11/29/84)
Annual dues:
[Raphael: Fine, but it can be steep.]
[Yiri: Must be allowances for individual families' income]
[you: ...]
Mi-she-beyrakh's (Prayers on behalf of a congregant, recited for a fee during
Torah reading):
[Raphael: OK, but can be embarrassing.]
[Yiri: I think 'pray for pay' is loathsome]
Auctioning kibudim (Honors of various sorts):
[Raphael: I don't like it.]
[Yiri: Agreed, honors are earned, not sold]
Yearly appeals during High Holiday services:
[Raphael: Contrary to the spirit of the day.]
[Yiri: Heartily agree!]
Rummage sales:
[Raphael: Great, especially if the poor have first chance and good price]
[Yiri: Agree]
Plaques commemorating departed relatives:
[Raphael: Traditional.]
[Yiri: Undecided]
Plaques commemorating joyous events:
[Raphael: I like this idea better.]
[Yiri: I think that's a great idea]
Contributions in honor of or in condolence for recent events:
[Raphael: A nice idea.]
[Yiri: Agreed]
Gift shop:
[Raphael: A good source of Judaica, but can tend toward bad taste]
[Yiri: I think it should be controlled and is then very useful]
Soliciting gifts of life insurance policies:
[Raphael: Un-Jewish and fraudulent]
[Yiri: agreed]
Religious-school fees:
[Raphael: The congregation should support the school, not the
reverse.]
[Yiri: Ambivalent. Raphael has a point. On the other hand, should
those who have no children pay for it? How about the poorer
families, etc?]
Art auctions:
[Raphael: Nice idea.]
[Yiri: Yes, it is.]
Bingo:
[Raphael: Encourages gambling, taxes the poor.]
[Yiri: On the other hand, it's voluntary and relatively cheap
entertainment even for the poor?]
----------------- Yiri appends:
How about car-washes, leaf-raking, and the like?
[you: .....]
Any comments?robison@eosp1.UUCP (Tobias D. Robison) (12/03/84)
>Religious-school fees: > [Raphael: The congregation should support the school, not the > reverse.] > [Yiri: Ambivalent. Raphael has a point. On the other hand, should > those who have no children pay for it? How about the poorer > families, etc?] Of course those who have no children should should support it! This isn't analogous to some of the secular school support arguments; the question here is which Jews have a stake in the future of Judaism. Going further, Jews without children might even feel some responsibility for the quality of the religious schools that are helping to provide for the survival of their religion. There are many fine dayschools, but the quality of after-school programs is often very low, and their cost to each parent is usually greater than the cost of a private tutor who would do much better. - Toby Robison (not Robinson!) {allegra, decvax!ittvax, fisher, princeton}!eosp1!robison >Bingo: > [Raphael: Encourages gambling, taxes the poor.] > [Yiri: On the other hand, it's voluntary and relatively cheap > entertainment even for the poor?] > There has been some violent net argument on similar subjects before. I think it is immoral for a moral organization to depend upon money raised by immoral pursuits. All forms of gambling are addictive and dangerous to some people. The effort of running a bingo organization also interferes with more proper religious pursuits (it doesn't have to be this way, but I have vivid memories of visiting a Synagogue and trying to round up a Minyan in competition with, or even after, a bingo session). - Toby Robison (not Robinson!) {allegra, decvax!ittvax, fisher, princeton}!eosp1!robison
meth@csd2.UUCP (12/06/84)
or leyom chamishi leparshas vayishlach, 12 KISLEV 5745 -------- from yiri : >> Yearly appeals during High Holiday services: >> [Raphael: Contrary to the spirit of the day.] >> [Yiri: Heartily agree!] -------- from asher : the concept of an appeal on those days when 'yizkor' is said in shul comes from SHULCHAN ARUCH, YOREH DE'AH 249:16, in the RAMO. paraphrased into english, he says : that which people obligate themselves to give tzedakah 'for' ('avur) the dead (i.e., in their memory) at the times of saying yizkor, is an old/ancient custom (minhag vatikin), and it helps for the souls of those departed ones. the TAZ says that the source of this halachah is ORACH CHAIM 621:6, in the RAMO; and that it is based on that which the BEIS YOSEF brings in the name of the MORDECHAI; and that the reason for this is based on the ROKEACH 217. -------- asher meth allegra!cmcl2!csd2!meth
robison@eosp1.UUCP (Tobias D. Robison) (12/11/84)
In article <42700009@csd2.UUCP> meth@csd2.UUCP writes: > the concept of an appeal on those days when 'yizkor' is said in shul comes >from SHULCHAN ARUCH, YOREH DE'AH 249:16, in the RAMO. paraphrased into english, >he says : that which people obligate themselves to give tzedakah 'for' ('avur) >the dead (i.e., in their memory) at the times of saying yizkor, is an >old/ancient custom (minhag vatikin), and it helps for the souls of those >departed ones. > the TAZ says that the source of this halachah is ORACH CHAIM 621:6, in the >RAMO; and that it is based on that which the BEIS YOSEF brings in the name of >the MORDECHAI; and that the reason for this is based on the ROKEACH 217. > >-------- > > asher meth > allegra!cmcl2!csd2!meth It seems a bit of a logical leap to go from the quoted passage to any formalized raising of money for the Synagogue. All the passage does is to recommend that individuals should give tzedakah at athe time of Yizkor. They can do this in many ways, and money given to the synagogue organization is not necessarily tzedakah. - Toby Robison (not Robinson!) {allegra, decvax!ittvax, fisher, princeton}!eosp1!robison
segs@mhuxv.UUCP (slusky) (12/11/84)
[] The fundraising article of several weeks ago brought up mi-she-beyrakh's and the practice of using them as a fundraising technique. Not only do I not like them as a fundraising technique, I'm doubtful about their propriety even when they're free. The implication of a mishebeyrakh is that the reciter has more spiritual power than the person on whose behalf the prayer is being recited. To be charitable, one could say that extra power is derived from the congregation. Even so, it seems an un Jewish idea that one person's prayers are more powerful than another's. I'd be a little happier with a prayer recited by the congregation on behalf of one member. Then the implication would be that many are more powerful than one. But I'm uneasy about that as well. Can someone convince me that mishebeyrach's are really okay? And are they common practice all over? Susan Slusky mhuxv!segs --
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (12/17/84)
> [] > The fundraising article of several weeks ago brought up mi-she-beyrakh's > and the practice of using them as a fundraising technique. Not only do > I not like them as a fundraising technique, I'm doubtful about their > propriety even when they're free. The implication of a mishebeyrakh is > that the reciter has more spiritual power than the person on whose > behalf the prayer is being recited. To be charitable, one could say > that extra power is derived from the congregation. Even so, it seems > an un Jewish idea that one person's prayers are more powerful than another's. > I'd be a little happier with a prayer recited by the congregation on > behalf of one member. Then the implication would be that many are more > powerful than one. But I'm uneasy about that as well. Can someone > convince me that mishebeyrach's are really okay? And are they common > practice all over? > > Susan Slusky > mhuxv!segs > -- The idea of a mi-sheberach is not the one's prayer is better than another's. If oe simply translates the words, one sees this is not the idea. Mi shemerach, He who blessed our forefathers ( meaning G-D ) should bless the person who just received the aliyah ( was just called up to the E Torah ) and protect him from sickness etc. Another Mi sheberach is usually made for the family of the person just called to the Torah. In this prayer again we say that G-D who blessed our Patriarchs should bless the listed people ( wife, children friends of the one who was called to the Torah ). The question is why should G-D watch over these people any more than over anyone else. The person who was called to the Torah should be protected because he was called to honor the Torah, the Sabbath, or the Holiday depending on when the Aliyah was given. These other people, however, did not rise to honor anything so why should they get singled out. To this the answer is, as the prayer says : "Baavur shenadar", because he, the one who received the Aliyah pledged, and the pledge is usually money. The prayer could be said without the pledge, and in our shul we do not force anyone to give money, and then it is still the same request for protection and is just as valid a one accompanied by a large donation. Another reason for donating money when one gets an Aliyah is this: rightfully the seven most distinguished people in the congregation( disting- uished by their learning ) should get called to the Torah every week. If, however, the Aliyah is sold, then there are rights to Aliyot ( plural of Aliyah )and anyone can buy an Aliyah ( even a non Cohen buying the first Aliyah ). On the High Holidays some congregations have the custom of selling Aliyot, in order to show te importance of getting an Aliyah( to show how dear the honor is, that people would spend money on it. it also helps as a fund raiser ). I hope this has clarified the matter somewhat. Eliyahu Teitz.