sher@rochester.UUCP (David Sher) (12/25/84)
Long quote at end of article. In the quote their is a claim that the pre-Israel Jews took no pride in being Jewish. Ignoring what this exchange was originally about, I remember something of my Jewish history and most of the stories my grandmother told me about growing up Jewish in NYC in the depression. At no time did my grandmother ever mention lacking pride in being Jewish or concealing the fact even when they were discriminated against. I don't know what it was really like back then I wasn't there. There have always been Jews who took no pride in being Jewish there still are. There always have been Jews who took great (perhaps too great) pride in being Jewish, there still are. Why do you believe that the situation before 1942 regarding this fact is significantly different than today. Oh yes as to why we didn't exercize our political clout before 1942, before one exercizes political clout one must acquire some. The market for political clout generally takes cash not credit (or votes). The Jewish community had to develop a strong economic base before significant amounts of energy could be committed to politics. -David Sher > > Quote at the end of the article. > > > There was a spiritual victory after the 1948 war, a victory that can be seen > daily on this net. > > Talk to your parents/grandparents about what it was like to live in the > pre-Israel world. How the Jew had no pride in being Jewish and how it > was a subject we tried to hide. I will not go into the ruses that were used > to hide one's identity, but taking off the holidays or early for Shabbat > just wasn't done. Wearing a magen david or a mezuzah just wasn't done. > Putting up menorahs in public places just wasn't done. Excersing > political clout for the good of the community wasn't done. Objecting > to Christmas carols being sung in public school or the creche in the > public park wasn't done. We didn't want to anger the goyim. > > Today, whether we observe all the mitzvot or not we have a pride in > being Jewish that was missing before Israel. There is a spirituall reawakening > of what was a downtrodden people. We are searching for the right paths > out of the quagmire that was pre-1948, using many different paths. Most > don't coincide with yours, but they are paths, and that is the spiritual > victory. > David Esan > > > > > The big difference between 1948 and CHANUKA is seen from theactions > > taken after the victory. In the miracle of CHANUKA the jews went to > > the Bais Hamikdash and purified it to serve HASHEM. They had a physical > > miracle (the winning of the war) and a spiritial miracle (the menora > > lit for 8 days). However unfortunately in 1948 after the miracles > > instead of seeking to serve HASHEM the 'state' was created as a > > 'democracy' with chilul shabbat,abortions,autopsies etc.... > > > > Although we thank HASHEM for giving us back our land we can not > > compare this to the days of CHANUKA > > Asher Schechter > > *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
martillo@mit-athena.ARPA (Joaquim Martillo) (12/25/84)
The problem with lack of pride, sycophantic admiration of European culture and ridiculous self-criticalness is purely Ashkenazi. Sefardim had loads of pride until the Israeli leftist governments worked to make them ashamed so that they could better be made to fit in the leftist secularist antiJewish culture which the Eastern European Zionists wanted to make in Israel. From: Caracteres Generales del Judeo-Espan~ol de Oriente by M.L.Wagner. A footnote pg 6 & 7 by Maurice Fishberg, The Jews, A Study of Race and Environment, London, New York and Melbourne, 1911, pag 108. There are significant differences between the two types of Jews when considered anthropologically, although there is hardly any justification for speaking of two distinct races as has been done by some writers. Neither of the two types can claim special racial purity. The Sephardi type is the one which conforms most to the ideal Jewishj type, and anthropologically corresponds to the "Mediterranean" race of Ripley, of the Race Ibero-Insulaire" of Deniker. The have generally black or brown hair, occasionally read and rarely blonde, large black or brown eyes, seldom, grey, and rarely blue. In addition to their dark complexion, they are short of stature and either dolichocephalic or mesocephalic. The face is oval, the forehead receding, the eyes almond-shaped with the outer extremity very pointed, while the dark eyebrows are very bushy at the inner end where they tend to unite over the root of the nose. The traditional Semitic beauty, which in women often assumes an exquisite nobility, is generally found among these Jews, and when encountered among Jews in Eastern of Central Europe, is always of this type. Indeed, it is hard to imagine a beautiful Jewess, who looks like a Jewess, presenting any other physical type. It appears that in addition to the delicacy and the striking symmetry of the features which are often met with, it is also the brilliant, radiant eyes which charm. The Spanish and Andalusian women are said by some to owe their charms to these beautiful eyes, which are alleged to have their origin in the small quantities of Semitic blood which flows in their veins. Their long, narrow heads often have prognathous faces, the upper and lower jaws protruding forward. The nose is generally narrow, prominent, often convex, but only rarly of the kind popularly considered "Jewish." Many of them have a rather large mouth with thick lips, expecially the underlip. "They are medium-sized, slender, narrow-shouldered, but graceful people, with a somewhat melancholy and thoughtful expression. ***> Only very rarely is to be seen a Spanish Jew displaying a servile or cringing attitude in the presence of superiors, as is often to be seen among German and Polish Jews [obviously because Sefardim never consider non-Jews superiors -- ed.] The Sephardim are very proud, and their sense of dignity manifests itself even in their dress and deportment, to which they pay scrupulous attention. These traits which they acquired while living for centuries among the Castilians [I would have said -- which the Castilians picked up from the Sephardim] have been transmitted to their descendants of to-day." <*** Needless to say there were many quisling Ashkenazim who were willing to work for the Yevsektsias in the Soviet Union (Menahem Begin gives some illuminating descriptions of these disgusting craven people in his writings). I have yet to find reference to any Sefardi quisling in the Yevsektsias.
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (12/31/84)
Yakim, If you have nothing nice to say, don't. I'm sick of your attacks on Ashkenazim already. I've live wit them without responding to them long enough. If you can find nothing but attacks on Ashkenazim, keep your fingers off the keyboard. What do you gain by these diatribes? They help no one and only isolate you, and therefore S'faradim in general from others on the net. If you want to further the cause of S'faradim, stop knocking Ashkenazim. Dayenu. Eliyahu.