dsg@mhuxi.UUCP (GREEN) (09/21/84)
[Hi Mr. Golem, its me again.] There seems to be much discussion about "Who is a Jew". If your mother was/is a Jew, you are Jewish, like it or not. Of course you may convert, deny your heritage or whatever. What does a Jew believe? Very simply: (From "Ethics of the Fathers") Moses received the Torah from Sinai and transmitted it to Joshua; Joshua to the Elders; the Elders to the Prophets; and the Prophets transmitted it to the Men of the Great Assembly. They said three things: Be deliberate in judgement; develop many disciples; and make a fence for the Torah. Now, what does that mean? The term Torah includes the Written Law ( i. e., the Five Books of Moses), *AND* the accompanying Oral Law ( Talmud ) which is the interpretation of the Text as divinely handed down to Moses in its entirety and expounded by successive generations of Sages. Moses received the Torah from G-d at Sinai in full view of all the people. Moses expounded the Torah during the forty years of the wanderings through the desert, and before he died he 'transferred' the tradition to Joshua to ensure its perpetuation. The Great Assembly and their successors at around the time of the Second Temple laid the foundation for the liturgy, edited several of the Scriptual books, provided for the intensified study of the Oral Law, and enacted many ordinances designed to prevent laxity in observance of the commandments. FENCES are provisions and cautionary rules enacted to safeguard against transgressions of the laws of the Torah. What does this mean to you? Unless you are aware of the Written and Oral Laws and the "fences" you are engaging in intellectual masturbation. Some on the net are well versed in the laws. I do not always agree with the resultant philosophical implications. The various "laws" tell the Jewish community how to act between man and G-d, man and man, and Jew and non-Jew. Try to place yourself in this Matrix: Persuasion Observant Non-observant Knowledge of the Law Orthodox Conservative Reform Non-Jewish Other As you can see, there are many "boxes" or permutations where you may fit into. Note that because of the different profiles, conversations between person "x" and person "y" can get a little heated. Lets try, for the new year, to be a little more tolerant of different personalities, and try to learn!!! Shalom, David S. Green mhuxi!dsg 201-564-4468
tim@cmu-cs-k.ARPA (Tim Maroney) (01/02/85)
To keep this in perspective, recall that there exist various Christian evangelical groups which seek to convert Jews to Christianity by dishonest means, specifically by pretending to be Jewish. (The infamous "Jews for Jesus" is, I understand, one such group, and was created by evangelizing Christians who had never been Jews.) They come across at first, that is, at the beginning of the semester, as a purely Jewish group, and have meetings where they discuss Jewish topics. Then they start bring up "The Prophet Yeheshua" who was "hung on a tree" and his sayings -- since most Jews are as ignorant of their religion as most Christians are of theirs, the audience thinks this is part of the Torah. It gradually becomes more and more Christianized, although only very late do the organizers let anyone in on this. As such, this is a deceptive and intolerable practice. And that, I'll wager, is why whoever it was objected to the phrase "Jews who happen to be Christians". Understandable in the light of the previous paragraph, even if you can make a case for the possibility of such a thing. To avoid the appearance of such impropriety, please refrain from such phrases. (This has been posted to net.religion.jewish as a warning to Jews who may be unfamiliar with this sort of evangelizing, and to invite first-hand accounts from any Jew who may have run into one of these groups.) -=- Tim Maroney, Carnegie-Mellon University Computation Center ARPA: Tim.Maroney@CMU-CS-K uucp: seismo!cmu-cs-k!tim CompuServe: 74176,1360 audio: shout "Hey, Tim!" "Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains." Liber AL, II:9.
jah@philabs.UUCP (Julie Harazduk) (01/02/85)
> = Tim > To keep this in perspective, recall that there exist various Christian > evangelical groups which seek to convert Jews to Christianity by dishonest > means, specifically by pretending to be Jewish. (The infamous "Jews for > Jesus" is, I understand, one such group, and was created by evangelizing > Christians who had never been Jews.) They come across at first, that is, at > the beginning of the semester, as a purely Jewish group, and have meetings > where they discuss Jewish topics. Then they start bring up "The Prophet > Yeheshua" who was "hung on a tree" and his sayings -- since most Jews are as > ignorant of their religion as most Christians are of theirs, the audience > thinks this is part of the Torah. It gradually becomes more and more > Christianized, although only very late do the organizers let anyone in on > this. As such, this is a deceptive and intolerable practice. > > And that, I'll wager, is why whoever it was objected to the phrase "Jews who > happen to be Christians". Understandable in the light of the previous > paragraph, even if you can make a case for the possibility of such a thing. > To avoid the appearance of such impropriety, please refrain from such > phrases. The phrase was not "Jews who happen to be Christians", that is something that neither a Jew nor a Christian would say so lightly. The topic seemed to come up when I was talking about Jews accepting Jesus as the Messiah, as in "Jews for Jesus". I am not very familiar with the group and their practices, I know that they hold onto the Jewish customs more than most of the Gentile (non-Jewish) Christian religions. I think most of the "Jews for Jesus" ARE Jewish, though, because when I attempted to go to a Service for Yom Kippor this year in New York, all the people coming out were Jewish. Some of my friends who have been to their services are Jewish as well, and they have chosen not to go regularly because the Jewish ritual is very much maintained in the services. > > (This has been posted to net.religion.jewish as a warning to Jews who may be > unfamiliar with this sort of evangelizing, and to invite first-hand accounts > from any Jew who may have run into one of these groups.) > -=- While you're warning Jews of the dangers of Jesus, warn them of the dangers of not keeping G-d's Laws also. Julie Harazduk {inhp4|allegra}!philabs!jah Prov. 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.