schechte@csd2.UUCP (asher schechter) (02/04/85)
In response to J Abeles.
J Abeles claims that the Orthodox community is using the "Who is a Jew"
controversy just to gain political power. He further states that scince
the Orthodox Jews did not participate in the creation of the state , they
have no right to force their views on the Israely public.
Of course someone used to the American Democratic system cannot understand
how a minority wants to enforce their laws on the public. However Israel
was not established by secular zionists but rather by G-d, and not in
1948 B.C. but rather in 1948 W.C. (from creation of the world) when
G-d promised the land of Israel to Abraham. All sectors of Judaism
agree that throughout Biblical times only Orthodox laws were the
laws of Israel. There were no reform or conservative or any other
phony pseudo-jewish laws in effect.
The year 1948 was only a rebirth of a very old Jewish state. No Jew
(even Ben-Gurion) or even a majority of jews have a right to change
or distort any of G-ds Holy laws.
Israel is not a democracy. Israel is a monarchy as stated in the
Holy Scriptures and explained in the Talmud. If a group of Jews
in 1948 got together and created a Knesset and run the country
as a democracy it is only because Messiah has not arrived yet.
Those who are afraid to let the Orthodox laws rule Israel have
a greater fear than just the Orthodox. They fear G-d himself.
They are afraid to let G-d run their lives because they would
rather let their own minds govern their actions than a supreme
being. The only reason for distortions of Judaism are to free
their followers of the burden Torah and Mitzvoth present. Let
us realize that there is a much deaper fight here not just the
law of return.
J. Abeles claims that the Orthodox are not welcome in Israel to
state their views because they did not participate in the creation
of the state. Maybe they were turned of by the secular zionists
rejection to follow Torah and Halacha as the basis of the "New"
state ?? Maybe they were excluded by the secular zionists because
of their "old fasioned" customs and way of life ??
I believe that an Israel without Torah is not a Jewish state.
Let Herzl and his cronies go to Uganda and set up a state there.
A jewish state is a Torah state. If Israel does not keep the Torah
and the Halacha as given to Moses on Sinai then it is just like
Uganda to Orthodox Jews.
The law of return is important for marginally Orthodox Jews and
Baaley T'shuva. If the law in Israel keeps the jewish lineage
pure then these people will be acceptable into the mainstream
of Orthodoxy (which will be all of judaism when the Messiah
will come and return all the lost souls). Of course we can't
solve all of our problems with just one law but it is a good
start. I thank j Abeles for bringing up the problem of
asimilation and hope we can help solve it.
The main point is why the libiral leftists in the Knesset are
so much against this law of return. They say "Nihye c'chol
hagoyim" let us be like all the other nations. They don't
realize that judaism is different. We are not like the rest
we are holier and must perform special duties as G-ds
representative on earth. All major Jewish decisions are
made by Rabbi's (loyal to Torah and Halacha) and not
by politicians.
As far as causing "sinas chinum" the talmud tells us that it
is a mitzvah to hate "reshoim". So don't try to use any
misplaced "tsidkus" for the distorters of our holy religion.
Asher Schechteryosh@hou2e.UUCP (M.CHING) (02/07/85)
<> > Those who are afraid to let the Orthodox laws rule Israel have > a greater fear than just the Orthodox. They fear G-d himself. > They are afraid to let G-d run their lives because they would > rather let their own minds govern their actions than a supreme > being. Since when does allowing the Orthodox to run our lives assure the fact that G-d is running our lives???? You must have a pretty lofty opinion of yourself to make a statement that grand.... Dave Bloom Bell Labs, Holmdel
sms@eisx.UUCP (Samuel Saal) (02/08/85)
Asher Schechter writes: >The main point is why the libiral leftists in the Knesset are >so much against this law of return. They say "Nihye c'chol >hagoyim" let us be like all the other nations. They don't >realize that judaism is different. We are not like the rest >we are holier and must perform special duties as G-ds ****** >representative on earth. All major Jewish decisions are >made by Rabbi's (loyal to Torah and Halacha) and not >by politicians. Until here your response was fine. Here you are treading in an area which I disagree with. I don't like the idea of calling the Jews "holier" than any one else. Different, yes, definitely; but not holier. It was this "holier than thou" attitude which has *helped* incite some of the most virulent attacks on Jews and Judaism. I say this not because I want to maintain a low profile in my life and practices of Judaism. I am no self hating Jew. However, The term "Kedoshim Te'hyu" is usually translated as "Be Holy" NOT holiER than anyone. There have been enough mistranslations of our Torah that have caused us troubles that we don't have to contribute to the legacy. Sam Saal .{.!ihnp4}!eisx!sms -- Sam Saal @ Video Heaven