kenw@lcuxc.UUCP (K Wolman) (02/07/85)
[Asher Schecter writes of Joseph Abeles:] >[S]omeone used to the American Democratic system cannot understand >how a minority wants to enforce their laws on the public. However Israel >was not established by secular zionists but rather by G-d, and not in >1948 B.C. but rather in 1948 W.C. (from creation of the world) when >G-d promised the land of Israel to Abraham. All sectors of Judaism >agree that throughout Biblical times only Orthodox laws were the >laws of Israel. There were no reform or conservative or any other >phony pseudo-jewish laws in effect. ***************************** I had always understood that one of the reasons the so-called "ultra-Orthodox" Hasidic sects such as the Satmars and their followers in Israel, the Naturei Karta, are opposed to the State of Israel is because they view it as founded by irreligious MEN, not by God according to His Torah. If indeed the present-day State of Israel was founded by God, and is in fact a lineal continuation of the state and land promised to Abraham, then WHY were God's instruments in the "rebirth" (Schecter's word) a series of far from devout men: Moses Hess, Thedore Herzl, Vladimir Jabotinsky, Chaim Weitzmann, David Ben-Gurion, et. al.? -- Ken Wolman Bell Communications Research @ Livingston, N.J. lcuxc!kenw (201) 740-4565 Kol machalokes shehi l'shaem shamayim, sofo l'hiskayaem; v'sheana l'shaem shamayim, ayn sofo l'hiskayaem.
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (02/13/85)
quote at end.
Two points. Firstly, the reason the Niturei Karta are opposed to the
state is their interpretation of halacha that no organized state would
be started in Israel without Mashiach, and that any attempt should there-
fore be rejected ( the last phrase is their addition ). They should have
in theory opposed a state of religious Jews too ( although if they were
offered control of the country I don't know how vehemently they would
have objected ).
My second point is about your question. Rav Kook, first Chief Rabbi
of Israel, was once asked why there were so many irreligious people in
Israel. He told te questioner of a place he ha visited in America where
many sick people ( physically ill ) used to go to a hot spring for bathing
purposes. The questioner replied that it was Saratoga Springs ( as I
recall the story, I might be wrong ). Rav Kook asked the man if it bothered
him that so many sick people came to such a beautiful place. The man
responded Of course not. They are coming to be cured. So too said Rav Kook
the non religious in Israel are coming to a spiritual hot spring, and the
hope is that even though they do not realize it, they will become
spiritually more healthy by just living in Israel.
Now to answer your question. Maybe G-D set Israel up inte hands of
the non religious to make it more accomodating for them, so that more of
them would come to Israel and get a dose of spirituality. If the religious
had a strangle hold on the country from its inception, many non religious
people would have stayed far away. This doesn't mean that the country
should be totally irreligious, but it should also not make the irreligious
feel out of place.
Eliyahu Teitz.
> I had always understood that one of the reasons the so-called
> "ultra-Orthodox" Hasidic sects such as the Satmars and their
> followers in Israel, the Naturei Karta, are opposed to the State of
> Israel is because they view it as founded by irreligious MEN, not
> by God according to His Torah. If indeed the present-day State of
> Israel was founded by God, and is in fact a lineal continuation of
> the state and land promised to Abraham, then WHY were God's
> instruments in the "rebirth" (Schecter's word) a series of far from
> devout men: Moses Hess, Thedore Herzl, Vladimir Jabotinsky, Chaim
> Weitzmann, David Ben-Gurion, et. al.?
> --