abeles@mhuxm.UUCP (abeles) (02/07/85)
I have received many replies to my original article from those who agree as well as those who disagree. I would like to have as many as possible agree with each other and with me on such critical issues, although there may not be much I can do to achieve that. I have selected one response that takes issue with the point of view expressed in the original article for my own response, as I felt it was probably the most well-thought-out. It is from Asher Schechter ( > ) and my comments are capitalized. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J Abeles claims that the Orthodox community is using the "Who is a Jew" > controversy just to gain political power. .............................. THE MOST OUTSPOKEN OF THE ORTHODOX COMMUNITY ARE AGGRESSIVELY DEMANDING THAT OTHERS CHANGE THEIR BELIEFS REGARDING CONVERSION. IT MAY BE SHOWN THAT THE EFFECT WOULD BE TO GIVE ADDITIONAL AUTHORITY TO ORTHODOX RABBIS AND TAKE SIGNIFICANT AUTHORITY AWAY FROM OTHER RABBIS. YES, FOR THE PRESENT PURPOSES I EQUATE AUTHORITY WITH A CERTAIN MEASURE OF POWER. > ........................................... All sectors of Judaism > agree that throughout Biblical times only Orthodox laws were the > laws of Israel. NO. IN BIBLICAL TIMES, THERE WAS JEWISH LAW. TODAY WE HAVE ORTHODOX LAW, CONSERVATIVE LAW, REFORM LAW, ETC. THE FACT THAT NOT ALL OF THESE ARE AS EXTENSIVELY CODIFIED DOES NOT A PRIORI MEAN THAT THEY ARE LESS BASED ON BIBLICAL JEWISH LAW, NOR DOES IT MEAN THAT THEY ARE NOT VALID. THIS IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT SOME MORE CLOSELY RESEMBLE (BUT ONLY IN SOME WAYS, EVEN IN THE CASE OF ORTHODOXY) THE BIBLICAL JEWISH LAW. I BELIEVE THAT ONLY ONE MAJOR FORM AMONG THESE AND OTHER JEWISH LAWS WILL SURVIVE--AND I BELIEVE THAT IT WILL SHARE SOME OF THE FEATURES OF ORTHODOX LAW WHICH YOU ESPOUSE. A MORE RESTRICTIVE FORM SUCH AS ORTHODOXY IS SOMETIMES ASSUMED TO ENCOMPASS MOST OF THE FEATURES (AS WELL AS OTHERS WHICH ARE UNNECESSARY) THAT JEWISH LAW WILL HAVE WHEN THE MOSHIACH ARRIVES--BUT THIS IS PROBLEMATIC AND CERTAINLY SO ONLY IF THE INDIVIDUAL PRACTITIONERS REFRAIN FROM BEING (a) EXCESSIVELY RESTRICTIVE AND (b) ARROGANT! IT IS ARROGANCE TO ATTEMPT TO TELL ANYONE ELSE WHAT THE RIGHT BELIEFS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE!!! IT IS ONLY CORRECT TO SHOW OTHERS BY EXAMPLE, AND TO EDUCATE THEM AT A TIME WHEN THEY ARE RECEPTIVE. > ...... The only reason for distortions of Judaism are to free > their followers of the burden Torah and Mitzvoth present. .......... WERE TORAH TRULY TO BE ONLY A BURDEN, IT WOULD NOT BE A GOOD THING AND IN FACT I WOULD THINK IT TO BE A BAD THING FOR JEWISH PEOPLE. WHILE I SUSPECT YOU DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY THAT, YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T MEAN TO SAY OTHER THINGS YOU WROTE EITHER. > ...............................................the mainstream > of Orthodoxy (which will be all of judaism when the Messiah > will come and return all the lost souls)..................... SUCH IS ONLY AN ASSUMPTION WHICH YOU SHARE, I EXPECT, WITH MOST OTHER ORTHODOX JEWS SUCH AS MYSELF. HOWEVER, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING WHICH WE KNOW FOR SURE. ORTHODOX JUDAISM IS ONLY A BELIEF WHICH, A PRIORI, IS SIMPLY ON A PAR WITH OTHER BELIEFS INCLUDING OTHER FORMS OF JUDAISM AS WELL AS OTHER "RELIGIONS" SUCH AS CHRISTIANITY, ETC. ONE SHOULD ENDEAVOR TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN FACTS AND BELIEFS! > .......I thank j Abeles ..................................... PERHAPS ONE DAY YOU REALLY WILL. > ......................................Asher Schechter --------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you all for your attention and especially for your sincere evaluation of the issues, --J. Abeles
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (02/13/85)
Sorry to disagree, but reform law is not based on biblical Jewish law. In fact, they contend that the Torah is more an historical record that a system of laws to be followed. Read some reform responsa and you'll see that this is true ( there is a volume of collected responsa in which this argument is mention numerous times ). So, true, the fact that they are less codified does not mean that they are not based on biblical law. The fact tat tey openly state this does though. Eliyahu Teitz. > > ........................................... All sectors of Judaism > > agree that throughout Biblical times only Orthodox laws were the > > laws of Israel. > NO. IN BIBLICAL TIMES, THERE WAS JEWISH LAW. TODAY WE HAVE ORTHODOX > LAW, CONSERVATIVE LAW, REFORM LAW, ETC. THE FACT THAT NOT ALL OF THESE > ARE AS EXTENSIVELY CODIFIED DOES NOT A PRIORI MEAN THAT THEY ARE LESS > BASED ON BIBLICAL JEWISH LAW, NOR DOES IT MEAN THAT THEY ARE NOT VALID. > THIS IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT SOME MORE CLOSELY RESEMBLE (BUT ONLY IN > SOME WAYS, EVEN IN THE CASE OF ORTHODOXY) THE BIBLICAL JEWISH LAW.