cs193bah@unm-la.UUCP (02/03/85)
By using the term "racist ultra-orthodox" I meant something very specific. Most orthodox Jews in Israel (for sure, all "knitted kipa" elements) view the Ethiopian Jews as Jewish. The Chief Sephardic rabbi and his staff have determined after years of study that the Ethiopian Jews were originally from the tribe of Dan. The problem the Ethiopian Jews face is with the Agudat Yisrael ultra-orthodox party and other anti-Zionist entities. These ultra-orthodox parties have exhibited racism towards their fellow Jews at every opportunity afforded to them. In their quest for "yiddishkeit" they divide the world into "yids" and "non-yids." Yids look like disheveled 17th century Polish zorros who don't get enough sun. Non-yids are anything else. I happen to know a couple of Satmer Jews in Jerusalem who I personally like but whose philosophies I detest. They know my Hebrew name, but insist that I should go by my "Jewish name," Velvel. That is, a "Jewish" name is something like "Berl" or "Shayna" or "Yankel" or ""Velvel." If you don't have such a name, well, your Jewishness is suspect. As Abeles wrote, what right do these people have to determine who is Jewish and who is not? It is G-d who determines it. The point is: if a lost community was found in the Ukraine that spoke medieval German (i.e., Yiddish), followed Jewish customs, and looked like 17th century Polish zorros, these ultra-orthodox would send El Al, TWA, and Aeroflot to take these guys to Israel. However, if it's a community in Africa (Africa? where's that?), and the people are EVEN DARKER THAN SEPHARDIM! Well, gosh, the definition of "who is a Jew" is even too broad! Let's make a fence around the Torah! A fence to protect our particular customs and viewpoint about who is a Jew. Can you see the cruel irony of the matter? These European-looking people in black smocks and fur hats with faces like Slavic warriors telling Jews from Ethiopia to get into a mikvah! ------ bill peter {ihnp4,seismo}!cmcl2!lanl!wkp
schechte@csd2.UUCP (asher schechter) (02/04/85)
I am afraid you speak out of hate and ignorance. First of all Aguda and Satmar have nothing to do with each other. Secondly Jewish names is a trdemark of jews for thousands of years (shelo shinu es shimum) and that is one of our merits to be saved from Egypt. Third of all they only ask them to assure us of their judaism and they do not discriminate against them at all. In fact Orthodox Jews have given graciously to help the falashas. Now as far as the zorros if you are ashamed of your old fashioned looking brothers maybe you are the racist. Are only Kippa Srugahs acceptable for a head cover. Were the jews of the last hundred generations including all the greatest men who ever lived, srugies. Why can't you accept them as they are (even if you think they are wrong) ?? Do you want to stoop down to their level??? You are doing exactly what you claim they are doing. Koll haposel bmumo posel. Asher Schechter
dimitrov@csd2.UUCP (Isaac Dimitrovsky) (02/10/85)
/* csd2:net.religion.jewish / schechte@csd2.UUCP (asher schechter) / 7:29 pm Feb 3, 1985 */ I am afraid you speak out of hate and ignorance. First of all Aguda and Satmar have nothing to do with each other. Secondly Jewish names is a trdemark of jews for thousands of years (shelo shinu es shimum) and that is one of our merits to be saved from Egypt. Third of all they only ask them to assure us of their judaism and they do not discriminate against them at all. In fact Orthodox Jews have given graciously to help the falashas. Now as far as the zorros if you are ashamed of your old fashioned looking brothers maybe you are the racist. Are only Kippa Srugahs acceptable for a head cover. Were the jews of the last hundred generations including all the greatest men who ever lived, srugies. Why can't you accept them as they are (even if you think they are wrong) ?? Do you want to stoop down to their level??? You are doing exactly what you claim they are doing. Koll haposel bmumo posel. Asher Schechter /* ---------- */
dimitrov@csd2.UUCP (Isaac Dimitrovsky) (02/11/85)
[] >Third of all they only ask them to >assure us of their judaism and they do not discriminate >against them at all. I'm no great authority on Jewish history, but I just can't resist asking this. Why should a community of Jews who has been wandering through Europe for the past two thousand years, and whose clothing and appearance are that of Eighteenth Century Polish nobility, feel more confident that they are of true Jewish stock than a community of Jews which apparently has been in the same area, isolated from the rest of the world, since the Bayis Rishon? Isaac Dimitrovsky
arig@cvl.UUCP (Ari Gross) (02/18/85)
> > > By using the term "racist ultra-orthodox" I meant something > very specific. Most orthodox Jews in Israel (for sure, > all "knitted kipa" elements) view the Ethiopian Jews as Jewish. > The Chief Sephardic rabbi and his staff have determined after > years of study that the Ethiopian Jews were originally from the > tribe of Dan. The problem the Ethiopian Jews face is with the > Agudat Yisrael ultra-orthodox party and other anti-Zionist entities. Hate to spoil your vitriolic attack on Agudat Yisrael and other "anti-Zionist entities" -- but it was the Chief Rabbis of Israel who decided that Ethiopian Jews should go through a token ritual of conversion since their Jewishness is not beyond question. They might have come from the tribe of Dan once upon a time, and that is really not the issue; the issue is what happened to Ethiopian Jews in the interim .There is little in the way of Jewish scholarship among Ethiopian Jews (very few can read Hebrew). In the absence of Jewish scholars or those who knew halacha, can we assume that their marriages, divorces, etc, had religious validity to them? This is a serious problem for all Jews in Israel who want to make sure that there are uniform standards for ascertaining who is a Jew and who is not; to make a dichotomy between Zionist and anti-Zionist is really rather absurd. > These ultra-orthodox parties have exhibited racism towards their > fellow Jews at every opportunity afforded to them. In their > quest for "yiddishkeit" they divide the world into "yids" and > "non-yids." Yids look like disheveled 17th century Polish > zorros who don't get enough sun. Non-yids are anything else. Sounds like this stuff should be expeditiously shipped over to net.anti-semitic where it will probably be better received. Why do we have to start stereotyping groups of individuals in such a ludicrous way? Is it because an intelligent, persuasive argument is lacking? > As Abeles wrote, what right do these people have to determine who > is Jewish and who is not? It is G-d who determines it. Yes, but presumably G-d has certain standards and the underlying question here is what are those requirements ? Are they based on some halachic principles or do we make them up as we go along? > Can you see the cruel irony of the matter? These European-looking > people in black smocks and fur hats with faces like Slavic > warriors telling Jews from Ethiopia to get into a mikvah! > bill peter Is this any more ironic than European-looking people in leather sandals, kibbutz hats, and Bermuda shorts putting religious olim from sephardic countries into irreligious kibbutzim, where they were forced to give up their faith ? I'm sure most Ethiopian olim would rather be sent to the mikveh than be stripped of their religion. Ari Gross arig@cvl.arpa