luria@ucbvax.ARPA (Marc Luria) (03/13/85)
MOled -- Why is it always not on the same day as Rosh Chodesh? Is the calendar off? Or did this have something to do with when the witnesses would come?
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (03/14/85)
> MOled -- Why is it always not on the same day as Rosh Chodesh? > Is the calendar off? Or did this have something to do with when the > witnesses would come? The moled is the beginning of the new month, meaning, the time when the new moon can first be seen. a lunar month is 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes and one chalek ( 1/18 of a minute ) long. In the time of the Temple, and imediately following it, the new month was decreed to start by the court sitting in the Temple ( and after the destruction, by the same court, just not in its old quarters ). The judges of the court could not decide on their own when he new onth was to start. Rather, witnesses would come, testifying that they had see the new moon. The judges would cross-examine the witnesses thoroughly to see if they were lying and if the judges were satisfied with the testimony, they could declare the new month to begin. The court was empowered though, if it saw a need, to delay the sart of the new month. Since the whole process was given to the court to decide ( as is learned from the verse Exodus, 12, 2 ) This month is to you the head of the months... The Torah said it was given to the court to decide when to declare the new month, so they could delay it. They could not, however, declare the month to start early ( before witnesses came ). Also they could only delay it one day, since a month has either 29 or 30 days in it. In the times of the witnesses, the moled could have been the day of Rosh Chodesh ( new month ) if te witnesses came quickly. Otherwise it would be te next day, the day they came to testify in court. When our present calendar was set up it was arranged in such a way that certain occurrences would not happen. Yom Kippur was always arranged to not fall out on Friday or Sunday ( because there would be two successive days when food could not be prepared ). Therefore, the first day of Pesach cannot come out on either Monday or Wednesday. It cannot fall on Friday either, because then Hoshana Rabba, when we take the willow in shul, would fall on Shabbat, and we wouldn't be able to go around. Hoshana Rabba, is the day before Shmini Atzeret, and both are considered days when we are judges as to how much rain will fall in the coming year. Because of these considerations, the new month does not always coincide with the moled. Another point. The time announced as the moled is in Jerusalem local time, since the new month's declaration was always in Jerusalem. Therefore it is possible to come to shul and say ( at 10:00 am ) the moled was this afternoon at 2pm ( since 10 am in America is after 2 pm in Jerusalem ). This whole discussion appears in many places in the Talmud, including, as I recall, Tractate Rosh Hashana. Eliyahu Teitz.
raphael@crystal.UUCP (03/15/85)
Why is the Molad not always the same day as Rosh Khodesh? Because of several sources of discrepancy: 1. The molad is calculated by a fixed formula, which is erroneous by about one second every month. It is currently about 4 hours off from the true instant of new moon. This accuracy is perfect within the grain of the calculation, which has 3-1/3 seconds as the smallest unit. 2. The time of the molad is given in Jerusalem Standard (not mean) time. 3. The day of Rosh Khodesh is calculated by a fixed formula that gives each month a set number of days. (The second and third months have either 29 or 30 days depending on the total number of days in the year, but the formula is fixed.) Rosh HaShono is usually pretty close to the first Molad (although it can be delayed by 2 days for various reasons, such as to prevent Yom Kippur from falling on Friday). Near the middle of the year, the discrepancy between Molad and Rosh Khodesh can be fairly large (a day or so). 4. Months that have 30 days cause the Rosh Khodesh of the next month to be celebrated for two days, on the 30th of the previous month and the 1st of the next one. So one shouldn't expect the Molad to fall near the first of those two. By the way, almost every published calendar I have seen gave the wrong time for the Molad a few months ago. I wonder why we so carefully announce the Molad in shul, since it seems fairly unimportant. Raphael Finkel raphael@uwvax (arpa or csnet)
hopp@nbs-amrf.UUCP (Ted Hopp) (03/16/85)
> ... When our present calendar was set up it was arranged in such a way > that certain occurrences would not happen. Yom Kippur was always arranged > to not fall out on Friday or Sunday ( because there would be two successive > days when food could not be prepared ).... > > Eliyahu Teitz. I believe there is a much more important reason: If Yom Kippur were to fall on Friday or Sunday, there could be too long a period during which the dead could not be buried. -- Ted Hopp {seismo,umcp-cs}!nbs-amrf!hopp
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (03/19/85)
> By the way, almost every published calendar I have seen gave the wrong time for > the Molad a few months ago. I wonder why we so carefully announce the Molad in > shul, since it seems fairly unimportant. There is an opinion, as I remember vaguely, that announcing the molad is in commemoration of the Sanhedrin's ( court in the Temple ) announcing the new month. Without the formal announcement, the month would not start. So we commemorate it by announcing the molad. ( I would imagine that at least one shul [ in Jerusalem ] would be required to announce the month in order for it to be considered Rosh Chodesh ). I do not remember where is saw this opinion so I cannot quote a source, I just remember reading it somewhere. Eliyahu Teitz.
meth@csd2.UUCP (Asher Meth) (03/19/85)
> When our present calendar was set up it was arranged in such a way > that certain occurrences would not happen. Yom Kippur was always arranged > to not fall out on Friday or Sunday ( because there would be two successive > days when food could not be prepared ). Eliyahu, isn't the reason because we do not want to have to leave a 'meis' (dead body) for two days (Shabbos & Yom Kippur) without burial ? Especially in the times of the Gemarrah when there was no refrigeration. asher meth
naiman@pegasus.UUCP (Ephrayim J. Naiman) (03/20/85)
<munch, munch> >> When our present calendar was set up it was arranged in such a way >> that certain occurrences would not happen. Yom Kippur was always arranged >> to not fall out on Friday or Sunday (because there would be two successive >> days when food could not be prepared ). I seem to recall that the problem with Yom Kippur coming out on Friday or Sunday was that there would be two successive days when a body could not be buried. Can anyone back me up on this ? Besides what the problem with not being able to prepare food ? So you don't have hot food on one of the days. As a side point, who eats on Yom Kippur ?????? >> Another point. The time announced as the moled is in Jerusalem local >> time, since the new month's declaration was always in Jerusalem. Therefore >> it is possible to come to shul and say ( at 10:00 am ) the moled was this >> afternoon at 2pm ( since 10 am in America is after 2 pm in Jerusalem ). I still agree with the original poster "Why is the Moled so different" ? Does anyone have a calendar with Moleds ? I can't recall even ONE Moled that is close to Rosh Chodesh (EVEN Israel time). I would think that on average we'd see most Moleds be within a day of the Chodesh, that's not the way I remember it each month. Can anyone concur with me on that ? -- ==> Ephrayim J. Naiman @ AT&T Information Systems Laboratories (201) 576-6259 Paths: [ihnp4, allegra, ahuta, maxvax, cbosgd, lzmi, ...]!pegasus!naiman
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (03/20/85)
> > When our present calendar was set up it was arranged in such a way > > that certain occurrences would not happen. Yom Kippur was always arranged > > to not fall out on Friday or Sunday ( because there would be two successive > > days when food could not be prepared ). > > Eliyahu, isn't the reason because we do not want to have to leave a 'meis' > (dead body) for two days (Shabbos & Yom Kippur) without burial ? Especially > in the times of the Gemarrah when there was no refrigeration. > > asher meth True. My mistake. Eliyahu.