samet@sfmag.UUCP (A.I.Samet) (04/23/85)
> >Whoever tosses eggs at Jews is, in some respect, a messenger from > >heaven. To some readers this may sound "heretical", but I hope > >they will try to react in a less ovular manner. [A.I. SAMET] > > Whoever throws eggs at Jews is a flaming anti-semite. You've > gone irrational, Yitzhak. "Ad lo yadah" [not being able to > tell Haman apart from Mordechai] is NOT A COMMANDMENT FOR THE > ENTIRE YEAR. Anyone claiming Haman to be a messenger of G-d > is delerious. It's equivalent to believing that Amalek (of which > the Torah has a lot to say) was also a messenger of G-d's... > bill peter Hmm! Sounds a bit like an anti-"Sametite". Is it because I criticized his crude dumping on Reb Moshe and the Haredim? If bill were a non-Jew we would quickly label that attack as antisemitic. What do we call a Jew who stoops to such behavior? For the record: Of course Haman was a messenger from Hashem. That's one of the basic insights in "ad lo yadah". That doesn't contradict his being an anti-semite. I made clear that I was not advocating non-reaction to these people. (I did report the license number to the police.) The point is that the Torah expects us to probe beyond the immediate superficial events (the stick, in the Chafetz Chaim's parable) to discover their deeper meaning. Yitzchok Samet
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (04/24/85)
In article <sfmag.552> samet@sfmag.UUCP (A. Yitzchok Samet) writes: >>> Whoever tosses eggs at Jews is, in some respect, >>> a messenger from heaven. >> Whoever throws eggs at Jews is a flaming anti-semite. > Of course Haman was a messenger from Hashem. > That's one of the basic insights in "ad lo yadah". > That doesn't contradict his being an anti-semite. > The point is that the Torah expects us to probe beyond > the immediate superficial events to discover their deeper meaning. > I made clear that I was not advocating non-reaction to these people. > (I did report the license number to the police.) Great! With all the murderers, robbers and rapists running around, I wonder how many detectives the police will assign to the case? Let me get this straight: When a Jew drives his car on the Sabbath, the proper response is to stone his car. When a gentile attacks you from his car, the proper response is to complain to other gentiles and ask for protection, while you meditate about how you probably deserved the attack. A more effective approach would have been for all the bystanders to form a gang, to drag the anti-semite from his car and then beat the sh*t out of him. The implied idea that Jews are less deserving of respect and security than gentiles (who are not even expected to follow all the Mitzvot) is the basis of Jewish self-hatred. Such self-hatred has led to the current epidemic of assimilation and intermarriage. Frank Silbermann
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (04/30/85)
From a Jewish perspective, I see two possible interpretations of anti-semitism: My interpretation: 1) Due to wicked forces, the world is unjust and arbitrary. Inference: Anti-semitism has meaning. Result: This interpretation yields no insight on how to fight anti-semitism, but at least acknowleges it as unjust. Yitzchok's interpretation: 2) God is punishing the Jews for not being "better". Note: God does not similarly punish the gentiles. Inference: The gentiles are somehow "better" than we are. Result: This interpretation leads to Jewish self-hatred, etc. From Yitzchok Samet: > Frank- > You didn't get it straight at all. I'm not a self hater, just > someone who is trying to view antisemitism in a broader perspective. ^^^^^^^ So far, you've only tried to understand anti-semitism from one unsatisfactory interpretation. Instead of trying to rationalize it as chastisement from God, perhaps we should try a really broader perspective. ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ Why not study anti-semitism from the perspective of the anti-semite? At least the insight gained might suggest more effective ways to fight it. In those cases where there is nothing we can do about it, we would realize this early enough to leave with our lives and dignity. The following flame has nothing to do with Yitzchok: begin flame I have a sneaking suspicion that instead of seeking the most effective means for fighting anti-semitism, Jews have often accepted it as inevitable and used it as a tool for keeping our people together. People who cannot make a more compelling a argument for remaining Jewish than anti-semitism are making a pretty poor statement about the attractiveness of the Jewish way of life. end flame. Frank Silbermann
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (05/02/85)
> > From a Jewish perspective, I see two possible interpretations > of anti-semitism: > > 2) God is punishing the Jews for not being "better". > > Note: God does not similarly punish the gentiles. > Inference: The gentiles are somehow "better" than we are. > Result: This interpretation leads to Jewish self-hatred, etc. I think your inference is wrong. Just because G-D chooses someone to carry out His will does not make the person better than us. G-D had some reason for the Holocaust. I don't know what the reason was and I don't think anyone does. There was a reason for it though. Does that mean that the person who carries out G-D's wishes is the best person in the world. The g'mara discusses this: How can a person ever be blamed for killing a another perosn, for it was G-D's will that it happen. The answer is simple: true it is G-D's will, but who do you think you are to undertake such a task. G-D will find His own way of taking care of a situation, why do you go and volunteer to do His work. This does not mean that anti-semitism should be looked at as a reminder only, and not to look at who is doing the action. We should be wary of anti-semites, and try to show them teir fallacies. However, we should also take this as a message from G-D. So really you are both right when it comes to anti-semitism. Eliyahu Teitz.