faigin@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Daniel Faigin) (04/08/85)
I was doing some thinking last night about what bread-stuffs, other
than matzo, might be Kosher for Pesach. Specifically, I was
curious about some of the non-levened breadstuffs of other
countries. [Note: Throughout this discussion, if you are not Reform,
insert "under proper rabbinic supervision" where necessary]
Consider the following foods:
Flour Tortillas (usually just flour+water+a little lime)
Corn Tortillas (corn+water+lime)
Chapti (indian -- I believe whole wheat flour + water)
These foods are all cooked in a simpler manner than matzo,
namely, put the mix on a griddle and fry. Note that the intent of
this is not to replace matzo, but to get a little variety during
the week. After all, no one around today knows for sure how the
cooks among our people actually cooked the (mixture), only that
they left fast enough that it couldn't be left to rise.
Daniel.
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All the flour tortillas I've seen in supermarkets have baking powder. Therefore I would be unwilling to risk eating one at a Mexican restaurant. All the corn tortillas I've seen in supermarkets don't have baking powder or any other leavening. Me myself I consider them acceptable. However, some people might eschew them on the same grounds they refuse to eat non-Pesach-dik matzo during Passover (fear of accidental leavening). Some years back when we first got a dog, we noticed that Milk Bones contain supposedly dead Brewer's Yeast plus a little baking powder, but Bonz seems to be unleavened. Incidentally, with Shevuot coming up relatively soon, I'll mention that we noticed you can make low salt/cholesterol goodies with Mocha Mix and crepes (rather than the more standard blintzes). Crepes are also kosher for Pesach, as they don't contain any leavening; they're too thin to need any. Baking soda/powder are permanently on our no-no list, so on Passover our main dietary change is to give up yeast. --Lee Gold
essachs@ihuxl.UUCP (Ed Sachs) (04/10/85)
Why is it that "kosher for passover" baked goods, from reputable companies (e.g, Manaschewitz), contain "sodium bicarbonate" in their ingredients list. Sodium bicarbonate IS baking soda! -- Ed Sachs AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, IL ihnp4!ihuxl!essachs
samet@sfmag.UUCP (A.I.Samet) (04/11/85)
> All the flour tortillas I've seen in supermarkets have baking powder. > Therefore I would be unwilling to risk eating one at a Mexican restaurant. > All the corn tortillas I've seen in supermarkets don't have baking > powder or any other leavening. Me myself I consider them acceptable. Big mistake. You don't need leavening agents to produce chametz. Flour and water will do the trick in 18 minutes (or less if the water is warm). Also, I've heard that commercially sold flour comes into contact with water during processing. Y.S.
meth@csd2.UUCP (Asher Meth) (04/18/85)
> >Consider the following foods: > ==>>> Flour Tortillas (usually just flour+water+a little lime) > Corn Tortillas (corn+water+lime) Corn is of the category "kitniyos" (kitniyot) which Askenazim do not eat on Pesach. Sefaradim, on the other hand, are permitted to eat these foodstuffs. asher meth allegra!cmcl2!csd2!meth meth@nyu-csd2.arpa
susan@vaxwaller.UUCP (Susan Finkelman) (04/23/85)
> > Consider the following foods: > Flour Tortillas (usually just flour+water+a little lime) > Corn Tortillas (corn+water+lime) > Chapti (indian -- I believe whole wheat flour + water) > The lime causes the maize to swell up like a balloon before grinding. Is it then "leavened"? Susan Finkelman (415) 945-2274 Varian Instruments, 2700 Mitchell Dr. Walnut Creek, Ca. 94598 {zehntel,amd,fortune,resonex,rtech}!varian!susan
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (04/24/85)
In article <csd2.3780040> meth@csd2.UUCP (Asher Meth) writes: > >Corn is of the category "kitniyos" (kitniyot) which Askenazim do not eat on >Pesach. Sefaradim, on the other hand, are permitted to eat these foodstuffs. On the other hand, even the Sephardim should refrain from eating popcorn, as the fleeing Israelites would not have had time to allow their corn to pop. :-) Frank Silbermann
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (04/29/85)
> > > > Consider the following foods: > > Flour Tortillas (usually just flour+water+a little lime) > > Corn Tortillas (corn+water+lime) > > Chapti (indian -- I believe whole wheat flour + water) > > > The lime causes the maize to swell up like a balloon before grinding. > Is it then "leavened"? > There are only five grains which, according to halacha, can become leavened, and they are: wheat, barley, oats, spelt, and rye ( I might be mistaken on spelt, although I think that is the fifth one ). All other grains do not become chametz ( leavened ). However, in order to avoid problems, the rabbis decided that any grain that is ground into flour ( any legume ) should not be used on Pesach. Eliyahu Teitz. > Susan Finkelman (415) 945-2274 > Varian Instruments, 2700 Mitchell Dr. Walnut Creek, Ca. 94598 > {zehntel,amd,fortune,resonex,rtech}!varian!susan *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
martillo@mit-athena.UUCP (Joaquim Martillo) (05/03/85)
From teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) Sun Feb 6 01:28:16 206 Relay-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site mit-athena.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site aecom.UUCP Path: mit-athena!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!aecom!teitz From: teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Re: What is Kosher for Pesach Message-ID: <1474@aecom.UUCP> Date: Mon, 29-Apr-85 12:59:20 EDT Article-I.D.: aecom.1474 Posted: Mon Apr 29 12:59:20 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 2-May-85 03:28:13 EDT References: <1894@sdcrdcf.UUCP> <252@vaxwaller.UUCP> Organization: Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., NY Lines: 26 >> > >> > Consider the following foods: >> > Flour Tortillas (usually just flour+water+a little lime) >> > Corn Tortillas (corn+water+lime) >> > Chapti (indian -- I believe whole wheat flour + water) >> > >> The lime causes the maize to swell up like a balloon before grinding. >> Is it then "leavened"? >> > > There are only five grains which, according to halacha, can become > leavened, and they are: wheat, barley, oats, spelt, and rye ( I might be > mistaken on spelt, although I think that is the fifth one ). All other > grains do not become chametz ( leavened ). However, in order to avoid > problems, the rabbis decided that any grain that is ground into flour > ( any legume ) should not be used on Pesach. > > > Eliyahu Teitz. Actually, Sefardim follow the letter of the law and permit legumes and rice as passover foods. In fact many of the foods which Sefardim make specifically for passover contain legumes and rice. Interestingly enough, Ashkenazim would be able to eat very little which Judah haNasi would have served at his passover hagadah while he would recognize very little of what Ashkenazim serve at the hagadah of passover (new world vegetables you know). Of course he would be right at home among Sefardim. The situation is even more absurd. This passover some sefardi friends of mine had a Russian Jewish couple as guests at the hagadah. Of course, they would eat very little of what was specifically prepared for passover. Since Sefardim consider comensality extremely important, such behavior is considered rude and crude but beyond this they brought their own Lubovitcher matzah which was hadash and therefore 'asur mide'oraita' until the third day of passover. > >> Susan Finkelman (415) 945-2274 >> Varian Instruments, 2700 Mitchell Dr. Walnut Creek, Ca. 94598 >> {zehntel,amd,fortune,resonex,rtech}!varian!susan > >*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** > > >
sher@rochester.UUCP (David Sher) (05/05/85)
> >The situation is even more absurd. This passover some sefardi friends >of mine had a Russian Jewish couple as guests at the hagadah. Of >course, they would eat very little of what was specifically prepared for >passover. Since Sefardim consider comensality extremely important, such >behavior is considered rude and crude but beyond this they brought their >own Lubovitcher matzah which was hadash and therefore 'asur mide'oraita' >until the third day of passover. > ? Y. S. Martillo ? (I am not sure this is you) I agree, your sefardi friends were being incredibly rude. In my book anyway, when you invite guests you respect their customs. How would you like it if I invited you to my home and offered you ham and carrots fried in lard (though actually I never cook such) or even cheeseburgers (which I have been known to eat). I admit that the Russian Jewish couple commited a faux paux by bringing the hadash matzah but that is nothing compared to the lack of hostipitallity of serving food to guests that their religion or native customs forbid them. -David Sher
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (05/06/85)
> Actually, Sefardim follow the letter of the law and permit legumes and > rice as passover foods. In fact many of the foods which Sefardim make > specifically for passover contain legumes and rice. Interestingly > enough, Ashkenazim would be able to eat very little which Judah haNasi > would have served at his passover hagadah while he would recognize very > little of what Ashkenazim serve at the hagadah of passover (new world > vegetables you know). Of course he would be right at home among > Sefardim. > According to the Ashkenazim the letter of the law now prohibits rice and legumes, so please stop trying to make Ashkenazim look as if they do not follow the letter of the law. > The situation is even more absurd. This passover some sefardi friends > of mine had a Russian Jewish couple as guests at the hagadah. Of > course, they would eat very little of what was specifically prepared for > passover. Since Sefardim consider comensality extremely important, such > behavior is considered rude and crude but beyond this they brought their > own Lubovitcher matzah which was hadash and therefore 'asur mide'oraita' > until the third day of passover. > I cannot condone the actions of the Lubavitcher. However, the host should have realized the potential problem of inviting an Ashkenazi to the Seder. One last point. Why do you assume the Ashkenazim to be so unversed in the Torah as to permit the eating of chadash ( the Torah prohibits the eating of grain which had not taken root by Pesach. The grain planted in thewinter takes root by Pesach and is therefore permissable. The summer wheat, however, is prohibitted until the second day of Pesach. ). Why Yakim thinks that Ashkenazim are unaware of this law perplexes me. Surely, Ashkenazim can read the Torah as well as S'faradim, and are as careful of its prohibitions as much as S'faradim. In fact, in America today there might not be a problem of chadash at all, since the wheat harvested in the winter, might not come to market until after pesach. Eliyahu Teitz.
megann@ihuxi.UUCP (Meg McRoberts) (05/07/85)
Does any one know when the Ashkenazim stopped accepting rice
(and legumes) as kosher l'pesach? It seems that Rashi considered
the question of rice (which seems to have been introduced to europe
about that time); he spoke with scholars "from the land where rice
is grown" (wherever that was), and they said that they ate rice
during pesach, so rashi decided it was acceptable. When was it
deemed unacceptable? Tosaphists? Shulchan Aruch?
meg mcroberts
{...}ihuxi!megann