dsg@mhuxi.UUCP (David S. Green) (05/05/85)
[] > What's Jewish about it ??? Is it because they play on Shabbat ???? > or because they eat Tarfut ??? or maybe because they have mixed > social events. The definition of Jewish is and has always been > defined by the Torah.All other forms of Judaism are frauds. > How far down have we sunk ????? > Asher Schechter This is one of the most important topics to come across the newsgroup in a while. The question is: "What are Jewish Singles supposed to do?" If I read Asher correctly, he would have us meet through a matchmaker. I read the posting and the "party" starts at 8:00; Shabbat is over at around 9:00 on that day. So, if you don't live within walking distance and are *strictly* shommer shabbat and live in the NY/NJ area you could get there by 10:30 at the latest if you leave NY at 9:15 or so. I do not plan on going because I have something else in mind for that night but what is wrong with "mixed social events?" Are there really people out there who think that the "evil inclination" is going to do you in by dancing with Jewish Single MOTOS? Now, I may be reading Asher wrong. He may simply be saying that Singles Dances sponsered by YM/YWHA's and other non-frum organizations shouldn't have the word "Jewish" in the title. All jking aside, I would like to pose the question again: What is the best way for non to semi-frum Jewish Singles to meet? ( I am using frum as an alias for "fanatic") Personally, I dislike blind dates, am fed up with the NY singles bar/disco scene, and don't care to answer ads in the "Jewish Week". I have found that the best way to meet is at parties but sometimes it is hard to come up with a good guest list. My definition of good guest list is simply a list with the same number of male and female names on it!!! Well, what do *you* think? Shalom, David Seth Green AT&T Bell Labs path: ihnp4!mhuxi!dsg PS Thank you Asher for prompting me to post something that has been on my mind for a few months.
samet@sfmag.UUCP (A.I.Samet) (05/06/85)
> This is one of the most important topics to come across the newsgroup > in a while. The question is: "What are Jewish Singles supposed to do?" > If I read Asher correctly, he would have us meet through a matchmaker... > > ... Are there really > people out there who think that the "evil inclination" is going to do > you in by dancing with Jewish Single MOTOS?... > All jking aside, I would like to pose the question again: > What is the best way for non to semi-frum Jewish Singles to meet? > ( I am using frum as an alias for "fanatic") 1) Yes David. The halacha clearly forbids mixed dancing (except between a married couple in private). If you like I'll give you a reference. The sponsoring of singles dances by so-called orthodox organizations is in flagrant disregard of this fact. 2) Matchmaking is not a joke, it's a tradition dating back to the bible. Moreover, professional matchmaking is a fast growing business today which caters to many non-Jewish singles who, like you, are fed up with the singles bars/disco scene. Selecting on a mate for life may be the most important decision you'll ever make. A responsible matchmaker (whether a friend or a professional) can be an invaluable asset in finding you dates which are compatible. It may seem unromantic to look for a wife the way you look for a job, but the pragmatism is definitely there. Considering the soaring divorce rate, matchmaking deserves consideration. I know of at least one Jewish matchmaking organization which caters to the spectrum of Jewish singles. Anyone interested can feel free to contact me. Yitzchok Samet
mls@wxlvax.UUCP (Michael Schneider) (05/07/85)
> ... the "party" starts at 8:00; Shabbat is over at > around 9:00 on that day.... > > Now, I may be reading Asher wrong. He may simply be saying that > Singles Dances sponsered by YM/YWHA's and other non-frum organizations > shouldn't have the word "Jewish" in the title. > > All joking aside, I would like to pose the question again: > > What is the best way for non to semi-frum Jewish Singles to meet? > ( I am using frum as an alias for "fanatic") > > David Seth Green AT&T Bell Labs path: ihnp4!mhuxi!dsg The above abstract of David's posting brings forward two questions and answers. First, should a Jewish organization have activities on Shabbat? And, second, are frum people fanatics? I know a number of high ranking people in industry, education, and government who consider themselves frum. They are, by no means fanatics. They simply follow the laws of the Torah. What happens when a Jewish organization holds activities on Shabbat? For those who follow the Law, it can cause problems. Non-Jews do not distinguish between frum and non-frum, they only see that a Jewish organization holds activities at the same time a frum person says he or she is unavailable. I have had to face this a number of times; it made me look like the fanatic David mentions above - a self-fulfilling prophecy. I realize that not everyone is observant, but why should "official" organizations, seen by non-Jews as a representatives of the Jewish people, act in violation of Jewish law and cause problems for those who are observant? M. Schneider
dsg@mhuxi.UUCP (David S. Green) (05/09/85)
[] > > All joking aside, I would like to pose the question again: > > > > What is the best way for non to semi-frum Jewish Singles to meet? > > ( I am using frum as an alias for "fanatic") > > > > David Seth Green AT&T Bell Labs path: ihnp4!mhuxi!dsg > The above abstract of David's posting brings forward two questions and answers. > First, should a Jewish organization have activities on Shabbat? And, second, > are frum people fanatics? > M. Schneider Thanks for fixing my typo on the word jking (sic) but PLEASE stick to the question that I originally posted. So far I have received more private email than net postings about my question which I believe is for the benefit of many readers, not just me. I am not advocating breaking Shabbat Laws and as for frum = fanatic, well... I am entitled to my opinions. Aren't you ( and others ) wasting valuable time reading netnews instead of learning Torah? (-: (-: *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
sieg@bocar.UUCP (B A Siegel) (05/09/85)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Jewish Singles References: <1025@vax135.UUCP> <3780044@csd2.UUCP> <318@mhuxi.UUCP> <432@wxlvax.UUCP> > First, should a Jewish organization have activities on Shabbat? And, second, > are frum people fanatics? I know a number of high ranking people in industry, > education, and government who consider themselves frum. They are, by no means > fanatics. They simply follow the laws of the Torah. What happens when a > Jewish organization holds activities on Shabbat? For those who follow the > Law, it can cause problems. Non-Jews do not distinguish between frum and > non-frum, they only see that a Jewish organization holds activities at the > same time a frum person says he or she is unavailable. I have had to > face this a number of times; it made me look like the fanatic David > mentions above - a self-fulfilling prophecy. I realize that not everyone > is observant, but why should "official" organizations, seen by non-Jews > as a representatives of the Jewish people, act in violation of Jewish law > and cause problems for those who are observant? > M. Schneider The problem does not pertain to Shabbat alone. I participate in a local softball league (Middlesex county, New Jersey) sponsored by the local Jewish Federation (or YMHA). The teams are made up of local synagouges, temples, Jewish community centers.. The games are played on sunday mornings. Well this years schedule includes games scheduled on sunday May 26, (Shavuot day 1) and sundays July 7,28 (fastdays 10'th of Tammuz & 9'th of Av). The chutzpah of scheduling games on shavuot & 9'th of Av, by a Jewish organization is appaling and in my opinion is not anti-frum BUT anti Jewish. Barry Siegel
teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (05/09/85)
> > What is the best way for non to semi-frum Jewish Singles to meet? > > ( I am using frum as an alias for "fanatic") > > 2) Matchmaking is not a joke, it's a tradition dating back to the > bible. Moreover, professional matchmaking is a fast growing > business today which caters to many non-Jewish singles who, like > you, are fed up with the singles bars/disco scene. Selecting on a > mate for life may be the most important decision you'll ever > make. A responsible matchmaker (whether a friend or a > professional) can be an invaluable asset in finding you dates > which are compatible. It may seem unromantic to look for a wife > the way you look for a job, but the pragmatism is definitely > there. Considering the soaring divorce rate, matchmaking deserves > consideration. True, matchmaking is a nice way to meet compatible people. However, it puts alot of pressure on the people on the date to make sure the date goes well. There are enough pressures in going out, trying to impress the other person, that one does not need the added pressure of knowing that the prson is spending alot of money on a girl ( or if she pays, on a guy ) he doesn't even know. If you know the person beforehand, then you know what you're getting into, to some extent, and you can trust your own judgement that you'd be willing to spend an evening with the person you are going to be with. When you go through a matchmaker, you don't know what you're getting into. You are trusting someone else's opinion of what he thinks you want. I know that there are few people who know what kind of a girl I want to go out with ( and they are for the most part past girl friends [ how I hate that term ]). So you go out with a girl you don't know and you spend alot of money. There is pressure to make sure you get your money's worth. And for te very religious who use this as the only method, and don't date for pleasure, there is even more pressure to see if this person will eventually become your spouse. People tend to act unnaturally, and they do not reveal their true selves lest the other person not like what he ( or she ) sees. Because of these pressure conditions, many people get married not really knowing the person they are marrying, which after a while leads to divorce ( not in all cases but in many ). This is probably one of the leading causes for divorce among the religious. I do not have any alternate plans. I wish I did. However, we must The one thing to remember is to look carefully before making a decision, and really make sure you know who the other person is. Eliyahu Teitz.
wkp@lanl.ARPA (05/12/85)
I personally don't care when or where Jewish singles meet other Jewish singles. (As long as they meet....) -- bill peter ihnp4!lanl!wkp
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (06/02/85)
> > What is the best way for non to semi-frum Jewish Singles to meet? > > ( I am using frum as an alias for "fanatic") > > 2) Matchmaking is not a joke, it's a tradition dating back to the > bible. Moreover, professional matchmaking is a fast growing > business today which caters to many non-Jewish singles who, like > you, are fed up with the singles bars/disco scene. Selecting on a > mate for life may be the most important decision you'll ever > make. A responsible matchmaker (whether a friend or a > professional) can be an invaluable asset in finding you dates > which are compatible. It may seem unromantic to look for a wife > the way you look for a job, but the pragmatism is definitely > there. Considering the soaring divorce rate, matchmaking deserves > consideration. Perhaps we will see a resurgence of professional matchmaking in the future. Unfortunately, at the moment it is not very practical for me, as few women in the 18 to 25 age group employ a matchmaker. I doubt that a professional matchmaker would have access to women who do not also seek out his services. The problem is that the clientel is imbalanced. Most of the women are middle-aged or older, whereas most of the male clients seek young women. The result is that the matchmaker tries to "sell" you on someone who is not what you are looking for. Frank Silbermann