kahn@crvax1.DEC (06/12/85)
Question: Most religions depend on belief in G-d and a set of laws that are supposed to represent His will. Belief in something, by definition, implies that it cannot be proven. If it could be proven, then everyone would have to accept it, and there would be only one religion (or at least no atheists). Why do Jews think that Judaism has a stronger basis than any other religion? Response: A comprehensive answer to the above question cannot be presented here -- I'm not qualified and the Notes file is not the appropriate medium. I'll attempt to whet some appetites to research further, though. That's the only way to really find answers anyway. To start with, we have to define how we "know" anything. Some philosophers postulate that we know nothing, that all of life is an illusion (i.e. only I exist, all of you are figments of my imagination and some day I will wake up from this dream). Most of us reject this and maintain that the world and our lives are real. Because of this, we can say that anything we can sense with our senses as being real, is real (i.e. I see a wall, so the wall exists). What about optical illusions? What about history that we did not personally experience? All of knowledge is based on our trust and belief in the medium giving us that knowledge. I trust that my eyes are not deceiving me, I believe my parents that I am not adopted, etc. This is based on experience and rational logic. I see the wall, I feel the wall, everyone sees the wall -- it must be there. My parents would never lie to me about being adopted, I know them too well. "You can't fool all of the people, all of the time" is a concept accepted by most people. There will always be someone that doesn't see the emperor's new clothes eventually. A major obstacle to knowledge are the ramifications of knowing that knowledge. Can you believe that there are people out there that say the Holocaust never occured? And we are talking about intelligent people! How do you think America is portrayed in Russia? If you were growing up in the USSR, you might find it very convenient to believe much of what you read in Pravda. These are just two examples of blatant lies or twisted truths that some people believe through rationalization, while others are simply misled. To really get at truth, you have to start out with the premise that you are'nt going to leave a stone unturned and that you will accept the outcome, no matter what that may mean. Take a look at Dvarim, Perek 4, Possuk 32-35. (Deuteronomy 4:32-35). I won't translate it, it's always better to look at the original. Moshe there is telling the Bnei Yisroel that Hashem SHOWED them that he exists, they must know -- no excuses. Where's the proof? Moshe says that Hashem did two things with the Bnei Yisroel -- no other people will experience them and no other religion will even be able to CLAIM experiencing them. 1. An entire nation (3 million people) hearing G-d's voice at the giving of the Torah. 2. An entire nation taken out of bondage from another nation through miracles, with the slave-nation losing its slave mentality and immediately becoming a free and moral people. No other religion has even claimed a mass revelation. It has always been one prophet or a small group -- "you can't fool ALL the people". When the Jewish people became a nation, it was based on the foundation that every single Jew saw and heard with his own senses. This, by the way, can get us into a whole new topic concerning Masores and the oral tradition. This knowledge has been passed down, father to son, teacher to student for thousands of years. Don't think Moshe was a tremendous speaker that could move the masses. He had a speech defect. Don't think that our forefathers in the Sinai desert were easy people to convince -- they were a stiff-necked people and not easily persuaded. But even they were shown with such clarity, that the Jewish people have laid their lives on the line for that truth ever since. This topic is discussed in the Kuzari in Maamar 1 (near the beginning). It is also discussed by the Rambam in his Igeres Taiman. Also Ramban in Devarim, Perek 4, Possuk 9. Ask a knowledgeable Rabbi for more sources. (I found these sources in a book entitled - Prakim Bmachsheves Yisroel -- Chapters in Jewish Thought. It's in Hebrew, folks.) I don't want to make this any longer than it already is, but I'll add some more topics that can be looked into: 1. Why is the oral law necessary? Why couldn't everything just have been written down? 2. Why does the written law (bible) seem so archaic? Why couldn't it be better organized?(lhavdil) Why are the mishna and talmud the same way? 3. What are the requirements for believing that someone: a. is a prophet? b. can be a judge? c. can be a witness? d. is an excepted poseik halacha? e. is a rabbi? 4. Why doesn't Hashem show everyone today that Judaism is the true religion (i.e. pull some miracles)? Why not make it so clear that everyone would HAVE to believe it? Why leave any type of doubt? Why does he give us freedom of will to deny it? shalom, dave kahn
rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Arthur Pewtey) (06/13/85)
> Take a look at Dvarim, Perek 4, Possuk 32-35. > (Deuteronomy 4:32-35). I won't translate it, it's always > better to look at the original. Moshe there is telling the > Bnei Yisroel that Hashem SHOWED them that he exists, they > must know -- no excuses. Where's the proof? Moshe says > that Hashem did two things with the Bnei Yisroel -- no > other people will experience them and no other religion > will even be able to CLAIM experiencing them. > > 1. An entire nation (3 million people) hearing > G-d's voice at the giving of the Torah. > 2. An entire nation taken out of bondage from > another nation through miracles, with > the slave-nation losing its slave mentality > and immediately becoming a free and moral people. > > No other religion has even claimed a mass revelation. > It has always been one prophet or a small group -- "you can't > fool ALL the people". When the Jewish people became a nation, > it was based on the foundation that every single Jew saw and > heard with his own senses. This, by the way, can get us into > a whole new topic concerning Masores and the oral tradition. > This knowledge has been passed down, father to son, teacher > to student for thousands of years. Don't think Moshe was a > tremendous speaker that could move the masses. He had a speech > defect. Don't think that our forefathers in the Sinai desert > were easy people to convince -- they were a stiff-necked people > and not easily persuaded. But even they were shown with such > clarity, that the Jewish people have laid their lives on the > line for that truth ever since. All you have shown is that the basis for Judaism is indeed different. The claims are more "persuasive", in that they would appeal to you more because they involve "mass revelation" instead of single prophets. But recognize that while you have shown the difference between the claims of Judaism and the claims of other religions, you have skirted the fact that different or even "better" claims (as in advertising) do NOT prove the point of the claims unless you already accept their sources as factual. These claims are no more or less viable than those that Christians offer from the Gospels. The amazing empty tomb. The virgin birth. All of these things are marvelous claims. If you base your choice of religion on who makes the "best" claims that appeal to you most, it is no different than buying laundry detergent based on what you are told in the commercial. -- "Wait a minute. '*WE*' decided??? *MY* best interests????" Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr