moran@aluxp.UUCP (moran) (08/12/85)
Recently, I had the (mis)fortune to attend Homowack Lodge (in the
Catskills) Shabbos Nachamu Singles Weekend. Yes, I had heard all
of the stories about how it was a meat market, etc., but I wanted
to see this legendary event firsthand. (I also figured that it was
infinitely better than going to a shadchen or otherwise being
"fixed up".)
Well, all the stories are true. While this wasn't the first Homowack
singles weekend I've been to, it certainly was more of a zoo.
I did have some interesting conversations, and I made some observations
firsthand. Some of these are surely stereotypes but they really held
up. I'm looking for comments by the net. (Obviously, this does
not fit on net.singles.)
===> The women there that are still college age seemed, on the whole,
to be doing nothing with their lives but looking for a husband. They
seemed to be hanging around until he shows up. (One memorable example
told me that she was taking off a year teaching, and then "I guess I'll
go to dental school." The reason that she was taking a year off was
to _avoid_ dental school!!)
===> (equal time) Very, very many of the guys there were socially, well,
retarded. This is no doubt due to growing up in an all-boys environment
in school. But one would think that for those that are working or
attended co-ed colleges they could at least open their mouths during
meals (optimum meeting times)! Some of these people really looked
like nice guys, but they were painfully shy. Whether they expected Ms.
Right to sweep them off their feet, I don't know.
===> (corollary to 1 and 2 above) The most interesting people I met
were either >25 years old (and presumably with more learned social sense)
or they were not quite as religious as the average person or they
were ba'ale t'shuva (more "normal" teenage social lives).
Singles' weekends still seem to me to be the lesser of all evils,
especially for non New Yorkers who would have to schlep to NYC
for anything else (Simchas Torah in the upper West Side? Forget it!!).
Any comments are welcome, and it is to be hoped that this topic will
liven up the net a little.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Lustiger
{Bell Labs machines}!aldvp!altuxb!ail
AT&T Technology Systems
555 Union Blvd.
Allentown, PA 18103
(215)439-7883
Reach out and touch the right choice with the future built in.moran@aluxp.UUCP (moran) (08/13/85)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Alan Lustiger > {Bell Labs machines}!aldvp!altuxb!ail > AT&T Technology Systems > 555 Union Blvd. > Allentown, PA 18103 > (215)439-7883 > > Reach out and touch the right choice with the future built in. Sorry, wrong UUCP address: ..!{Bell Labs machines}!aluxp!altuxb!ail ^^^^^ Hey! I'm new at this!
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (08/13/85)
In article <273@aluxp.UUCP> moran@aluxp.UUCP (Alan Lustiger) writes: >Recently, I had the (mis)fortune to attend Homowack Lodge Shabbos >Nachamu Singles Weekend (in the Catskills). Homowack?!? Boy, could I make some puns with that name! >I did have some interesting conversations, and I made some observations >firsthand. Some of these are surely stereotypes but they really held up. >I'm looking for comments by the net. (Obviously, this does not fit on >net.singles.) > >===> The women there that are still college age seemed, on the whole, >to be doing nothing with their lives but looking for a husband. They >seemed to be hanging around until he shows up. (One memorable example >told me that she was taking off a year teaching, and then "I guess I'll >go to dental school." The reason that she was taking a year off was >to _avoid_ dental school!!) Traditional Jewish values REQUIRE marriage and family. Any life without this is considered inherently unsatifactory. It's to be expected that unmarried Orthodox Jewish women would consider finding a husband to be highest priority in their lives (theoretically, this also should hold for the men). >===> (equal time) Very, very many of the guys there were socially, well, >retarded. This is no doubt due to growing up in an all-boys environment >in school. But one would think that for those that are working or >attended co-ed colleges they could at least open their mouths during >meals (optimum meeting times)! Some of these people really looked >like nice guys, but they were painfully shy. Whether they expected Ms. >Right to sweep them off their feet, I don't know. An Orthodox friend once caught me reading a book about overcoming shyness. I confessed that I also had been observing a couple of my Italian-American friends to get ideas how to be more relaxed and sexy around women. He told me that shyness with women was a DESIRED trait for Jewish men. It keeps them out of trouble. >===> (corollary to 1 and 2 above) The most interesting people I met >were either over 25 years old (and presumably with more learned social sense) >or they were not quite as religious as the average person or they >were ba'ale t'shuva (more "normal" teenage social lives). Interesting that you consider "normal" to mean "like the gentiles". Your values seem to deviate severely from those taught in the Talmud. Mine, likewise, but then I'm a heretic (like most other American Jews). I assume you are at least nominally Orthodox, or you would not have attended in the first place? Frank Silbermann
moran@aluxp.UUCP (moran) (08/14/85)
> > In article <273@aluxp.UUCP> moran@aluxp.UUCP (Alan Lustiger) writes: > >Recently, I had the (mis)fortune to attend Homowack Lodge Shabbos > >Nachamu Singles Weekend (in the Catskills). > > . . . > >===> The women there that are still college age seemed, on the whole, > >to be doing nothing with their lives but looking for a husband. They > >seemed to be hanging around until he shows up. (One memorable example > >told me that she was taking off a year teaching, and then "I guess I'll > >go to dental school." The reason that she was taking a year off was > >to _avoid_ dental school!!) > > Traditional Jewish values REQUIRE marriage and family. Any life > without this is considered inherently unsatifactory. It's to be expected > that unmarried Orthodox Jewish women would consider finding a husband > to be highest priority in their lives (theoretically, this also should > hold for the men). > Finding a spouse, I believe, _should_ be the highest priority. But not the _only_ priority. > >===> (equal time) Very, very many of the guys there were socially, well, > >retarded. This is no doubt due to growing up in an all-boys environment > >in school. > > An Orthodox friend once caught me reading a book about overcoming shyness. > I confessed that I also had been observing a couple of my Italian-American > friends to get ideas how to be more relaxed and sexy around women. > He told me that shyness with women was a DESIRED trait for Jewish men. > It keeps them out of trouble. > In a situation like this, someone's got to open their mouth first. Most women there weren't, and these guys likewise weren't. > >===> (corollary to 1 and 2 above) The most interesting people I met > >were either over 25 years old (and presumably with more learned social sense) > >or they were not quite as religious as the average person or they > >were ba'ale t'shuva (more "normal" teenage social lives). > > Interesting that you consider "normal" to mean "like the gentiles". > Your values seem to deviate severely from those taught in the Talmud. > Mine, likewise, but then I'm a heretic (like most other American Jews). > I assume you are at least nominally Orthodox, or you would not have A > attended in the first place? > > Frank Silbermann I put "normal" in quotes exactly to mean "like the average American (gentile)". This does not mean that I like it, but having gone to college and now being in the "real world" I want a wife who I can talk to intelligently, and I assumed that these weekends are the least of all evils as methods for meeting her. There are alternatives for the more right-wing Orthodox, namely, going the shadchen route. I don't think that there is anything wrong with that. But it ain't for me (unless, chas v'sholom, I get desperate :-)). I think that there is a correlation between the shyness of the guys there and their frumkeit, so I think that the matchmakers would be better for B them. But it seems to me that people who go to singles weekends accept a "given" that they are going to have to be more sociable in order to meet people. That's why it bothered me that the guys weren't (though, of course, that meant less competition :-)). Alan Lustiger ..aluxp!altuxb!ail