liss@gramps.DEC (Frederick R. Liss DTN 237-3649) (09/04/85)
I am looking for an explanation of what is meant by "glatt kosher". I did not know that some foods can be "more kosher" than others. The reason why I ask is that the only kosher butcher in our area is retiring. An established butcher from the Boston area has bought the store and is opening a second location. I have been told that he will sell kosher as well as glatt kosher products. The definition of these terms is very important to me since we keep a kosher kitchen. Regards, Fred --- Frederick R. Liss UUCP ...decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-gramps!liss Digital Equipment Corp. ARPA liss%gramps.DEC@decwrl.ARPA 333 South St. Shrewsbury MA, 01545 Mail Stop SHR1-4/D21
schechte@csd2.UUCP (asher schechter) (09/06/85)
The shulkhan aruch in Yoreh Deah states that if a "sircha" (sort of membrane)
is found on the lung of an animal the whole animal is trefah. Therefore the
Sefardim only eat from an animal that is "chalak" (smooth, without any sirchas).
The Ramma however bring down a view that if the "sircha" can be removed under
certain circumstances it is also kosher. Those who want to keep away from
any problems however eat "Glatt" (smooth, in yiddush). So Ashkenazim who
follow Ramma can eat non-Glatt kosher but the Ramma himself suggests one to
eat Glatt. For further information see Yoreh Daeh, Hilchot Trefot 33-36.
Asher Schechterslerner@sesame.UUCP (Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner) (09/08/85)
> I am looking for an explanation of what is meant by "glatt kosher". I > did not know that some foods can be "more kosher" than others. Glatt kosher only applies to red meat (and meat products). It does not apply to chicken or milchigs (although it has been misused to mean that something is very carefully supervised, this is very much NOT the proper meaning). Meat animals (beef, lambs, etc) must have their lungs inspected after sh'chita. Certain defects in the lung render the animal treif. It therefore takes a mashgiach with much knowledge to examine scabs/sores/etc. within the lung to determine if the animal is kosher. If the lungs are found to be tottaly smooth (smooth=glatt) then there is no question on the kashrut of the animal (at least in terms of questions that arise from the lungs). It is considered a hidur (lit. beutification) to use only glatt kosher meat, and some will only use such. However, it is only a hidur and is NOT more kosher than regular kosher meat (assuming the mashgiach knows what he is doing). -- Opinions expressed are public domain, and do not belong to Lotus Development Corp. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner {genrad|ihnp4|ima}!wjh12!talcott!sesame!slerner {cbosgd|harvard}!talcott!sesame!slerner slerner%sesame@harvard.ARPA
rib@cord.UUCP (RI Block) (09/10/85)
Disclaimer: I am not qualified to render an authoritative opinion
on kashrut.
Asher Schecter (reproduced below) has given all the technical information.
There is some additional background information that may be useful.
There are many defects that render an animal unfit as trefah,
however, since the majority of such defects are noted in conjunction with the
lungs, most of the checking occurs there.
In Eastern Europe, animals were commonly slaughtered on the owner's
premises, on an as-needed basis. In an era before widespread refrigeration
and transportation, a trefah on a large animal was an enormous
financial loss because the carcass had minimal salvage value.
There is a direction in practical halacha that when significant loss is at
stake (hefsed merubah), certain otherwise undesirable actions are
considered acceptable. The custom of manipulating the lungs in the
case of doubtful sirchot is well accepted in most ashkenazi communities
in Europe.
I believe that the Hungarian communities were the first to break
with this, and glatt has spread throughout the American orthodox scene
for some good and some not so good reasons:
1. Hefsed Merubah may not be applicible now that a trefah can be
sold for a resonable price.
2. The reliability (in terms of halacha) of the traditional kosher
distribution chain is suspect. Because kosher meat looks the same
as non-kosher meat, constant surveilance by reliable (meaning
shomer shabbat, etc.) individuals is required. While there exist non-glatt
markets of unimpeachable integrity, I have seen many where the
proprietors and workers do not meet this standard. There is, additionally,
widespread suspicion of large-scale involvement by organized crime
in the traditional kosher distribution chain.
3. A side effect of "glatt" is that meat is soaked and salted
as soon as possible. This not only eliminates problems with the 3-day washing
requirement, but helps to see that the job gets done right.
4. Unfortunately, since many more animals are now considered defective,
the halachik presumption of majority (rov) which allowed other
possible defects to be summarily dismissed, may now be in doubt.
Since animals with sircot were only accepted because of great loss,
fowl were never involved. Nevertheless, the term glatt has been
expanded to mean "reliably kosher" and glatt kosher poultry is sold.
Similarly, in many places, unadorned kosher means "kosher style"
and glatt kosher means, simply kosher.
It goes almost without saying that anyone who plans on "keeping kosher"
needs to feel comfortable with the idea of asking questions of a
COMPETANT authority. There are, as in all of halacha, many details,
especially in "error-recovery". Even though many readers of this net
are experts in their own specialties, there is generally no
sense of shame in asking questions of a hardware or software guru.
For the same reasons, there is no shame in consulting a halachik expert
on this, or any other technical aspect of jewish practice.
Asher's posting follows:
The shulkhan aruch in Yoreh Deah states that if a "sircha" (sort of membrane)
is found on the lung of an animal the whole animal is trefah. Therefore the
Sefardim only eat from an animal that is "chalak" (smooth, without any sirchas).
The Ramma however bring down a view that if the "sircha" can be removed under
certain circumstances it is also kosher. Those who want to keep away from
any problems however eat "Glatt" (smooth, in yiddush). So Ashkenazim who
follow Ramma can eat non-Glatt kosher but the Ramma himself suggests one to
eat Glatt. For further information see Yoreh Daeh, Hilchot Trefot 33-36.
Asher Schechterteitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) (09/11/85)
> I am looking for an explanation of what is meant by "glatt kosher". I > did not know that some foods can be "more kosher" than others. > The difference between glatt and non-glatt meat is simple. The lung of an animal must be whole in order to be considered kosher. If it is punctured the animal, although slaughtered, is not kosher. Sometimes there are lesions in the lung, and it is not clear as to whether the lung is punctured. Therefore some people prefer to eat meat from an animal that had smooth ( glatt in Yiddish ) lungs, to avoid problems. The s'faradim according to R. Karo, consider non-glatt meat as not kosher ( in a change from the norm, Ashkenazim take Rambam's approach that it is kosher [ this is from memory, so I may be wrong, but when I studied the laws I recall this point vaguely ]). Non-glatt meat, according to Ashkenazim, is as kosher as glatt meat, although there are many people who prefer to accept the more stringent view upon themselves ( and not eat non-glatt meat personally ). Veal, however, must be glatt, and in fact, non-glatt veal is not sold. ( If someone wants to charge you extra for glatt veal tell him he's a cheat. These laws apply only to meat ( and not poultry ). Eliyahu Teitz.
ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) (09/11/85)
> Meat animals (beef, lambs, etc) must have their lungs inspected after > sh'chita. Certain defects in the lung render the animal treif. It > therefore takes a mashgiach with much knowledge to examine scabs/sores/etc. > within the lung to determine if the animal is kosher. If the lungs are > found to be tottaly smooth (smooth=glatt) then there is no question on > the kashrut of the animal (at least in terms of questions that arise > from the lungs). It is considered a hidur (lit. beutification) > to use only glatt kosher meat, and some will only use such. However, > it is only a hidur and is NOT more kosher than regular kosher meat > (assuming the mashgiach knows what he is doing). Fascinating. Care to post more detail?
abeles@mhuxm.UUCP (J. Abeles (Bellcore, Murray Hill, NJ)) (09/12/85)
> Disclaimer: I am not qualified to render an authoritative opinion > on kashrut. > > It goes almost without saying that anyone who plans on "keeping kosher" > needs to feel comfortable with the idea of asking questions of a > COMPETANT authority. Or even a competent one...