michaelm@3comvax.UUCP (Michael McNeil) (01/01/70)
[snore...] > > Okay, this is a cheap shot, but I'll take it. > > If there were as many Jews as you say, and if, as was > > claimed in the original posting on this topic, this was > > at the time of a Roman attack, how come we lost? > > The Jews at that time were divided into all sorts of warring sects. > There were Baryonim (Zealots), Sadducees, Minim (early Christians), > etc. With so much dissension, the Jews did the Romans' work for them. > -- Matt Rosenblatt I wasn't aware that it was a *Jewish* army which conquered Jerusalem -- with a few Roman auxiliaries on the side. This would have to have been the case with the population advantage you propose (some 3,600 Jews for every single Roman!). Quite a bit of dissension, indeed! By the way, if the Jews had so much trouble agreeing on whether to be enslaved or not, how can you be so sure 1,900 years later which side was right? -- Michael McNeil 3Com Corporation "All disclaimers including this one apply" (415) 960-9367 ..!ucbvax!hplabs!oliveb!3comvax!michaelm Who knows for certain? Who shall here declare it? Whence was it born, whence came creation? The gods are later than this world's formation; Who then can know the origins of the world? None knows whence creation arose; And whether he has or has not made it; He who surveys it from the lofty skies, Only he knows -- or perhaps he knows not. *The Rig Veda*, X. 129
levy@ttrdc.UUCP (Daniel R. Levy) (09/07/85)
In article <1189@brl-tgr.ARPA>, matt@brl-tgr.ARPA (Matthew Rosenblatt ) writes: >> >> >(4) Concerning those empty, barren hills, on which cities are rising : >> >The Talmud makes mention of a Jewish king who had established on each of 60 >> >hills, 60 cities - an enormous population. (I think that it may be found in >> >Gittin, among the discussions of the destruction of the Temple.) (A. METH) > >And that's not all! The same Gemara in Gittin says that at the time of one >Roman attack, there were 600,000 towns, each of which held as many Jews as >took part in y'tzias Mitzrayim (i.e., about 600,000). That's 360 thousand >million Jews, 360 billion according to the American convention. This is >not a Midrash, but a Gemara. The fact is that the "rules" of physics >and ecology are the creations of G-d, who can alter them locally and >globally, and has done so, especially in cases concerning His people. > > -- Matt Rosenblatt Amazing. Looking in the geographical index of the dictionary on my desk, I see that Israel's area (modern) is 7993 square miles. With 360e9 Jews that comes out to about 0.62 square foot per Jew. Simply amazing. -- Dan Levy AT&T Computer Systems Division, Skokie ..!ihnp4!ttrdc!levy
abeles@mhuxm.UUCP (J. Abeles (Bellcore, Murray Hill, NJ)) (09/10/85)
> Amazing. Looking in the geographical index of the dictionary on my desk, > I see that Israel's area (modern) is 7993 square miles. With 360e9 Jews > that comes out to about 0.62 square foot per Jew. Simply amazing. > -- > Dan Levy If there were a lot of mountains, and the Jews stood sideways, that might help. Alternatively, there could be lots of caves, or the whole country could be built like a shopping mall with lots of levels everywhere and no parking lots. Another interpretation of the idea that there could be that # of Jews in Israel is that the size of the country designated as "Israel" might be increased to include more than just present-day Israel. Hmmmm... --J. Abeles
matt@brl-tgr.ARPA (Matthew Rosenblatt ) (09/10/85)
> Amazing. Looking in the geographical index of the dictionary on my desk, > I see that Israel's area (modern) is 7993 square miles. With 360e9 Jews > that comes out to about 0.62 square foot per Jew. Simply amazing. > -- > Dan Levy Multi-storey buildings have been found on mesas in the American Southwest, the work of Indians who died out or moved out more than eight hundred years before my time (BMT). Present-day Indians call the builders "the ancient ones." What's the density of population of the block bounded by Fifth and Sixth Avenues, 33rd and 34th Streets, in Manhattan? And the ancient ones and the builders of the Empire State Building built on ordinary land Chutz La-Aretz, under no Hashgacha any more special than what the Nations usually get. -- Matt Rosenblatt
tan@ihlpg.UUCP (Bill Tanenbaum) (09/12/85)
> > Amazing. Looking in the geographical index of the dictionary on my desk, > > I see that Israel's area (modern) is 7993 square miles. With 360e9 Jews > > that comes out to about 0.62 square foot per Jew. Simply amazing. > > Dan Levy > > If there were a lot of mountains, and the Jews stood sideways, that might > help. > > Alternatively, there could be lots of caves, or the whole country could > be built like a shopping mall with lots of levels everywhere and no > parking lots. > --J. Abeles ---- The answer is obvious. Condominiums. -- Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL ihnp4!ihlpg!tan
buchbind@agrigene.UUCP (09/14/85)
> > And that's not all! The same Gemara in Gittin says that at the time of one > Roman attack, there were 600,000 towns, each of which held as many Jews as > took part in y'tzias Mitzrayim (i.e., about 600,000). That's 360 thousand > million Jews, 360 billion according to the American convention. This is > not a Midrash, but a Gemara. And that's an underestimate! 600,000 Israelites (not Jews = Judah) included men of fighting age (>=18) and were not of the tribe of Levi. -- Barry Buchbinder (608)221-5000 Agrigenetics Corp.; 5649 E. Buckeye Rd.; Madison WI 53716 USA {seismo!uwvax!astroatc,decvax,ihnp4}!nicmad!agrigene!buchbind
ian@sdcsma.UUCP (Ian Ferris) (09/14/85)
Okay, this is a cheap shot, but I'll take it. If there were as many Jews as you say, and if, as was claimed in the original posting on this topic, this was at the time of a Roman attack, how come we lost?
michaelm@3comvax.UUCP (Michael McNeil) (09/16/85)
[``Yaaaaargh!'' (Munch, chomp, *belch*!)] In article <1189@brl-tgr.ARPA>, matt@brl-tgr.ARPA (Matthew Rosenblatt) writes: > >(4) Concerning those empty, barren hills, on which cities are rising : > >The Talmud makes mention of a Jewish king who had established on each of > >60 hills, 60 cities - an enormous population. (I think that it may be > >found in Gittin, among the discussions of the destruction of the Temple.) > >(A. METH) > And that's not all! The same Gemara in Gittin says that at the time of one > Roman attack, there were 600,000 towns, each of which held as many Jews as > took part in y'tzias Mitzrayim (i.e., about 600,000). That's 360 thousand > million Jews, 360 billion according to the American convention. This is > not a Midrash, but a Gemara. The fact is that the "rules" of physics > and ecology are the creations of G-d, who can alter them locally and > globally, and has done so, especially in cases concerning His people. > > -- Matt Rosenblatt I find it extremely difficult to believe that the feisty Jews of Roman times (who provided us with the word ``zealots'' and the doomed-but- defiant image we have of Masada) could not have *easily* defeated all the might of Rome, had they had but a fraction of the *360 billion* people which Matt here suggests. Compare this figure to an estimated total population of *100 million* or so for all of the Roman Empire! Surely the Jews could have managed to kill a single Roman for each of *3,600* Jews killed or enslaved! (Unless, of course, ``G-d'' altered the ``rules of physics ... in cases concerning His [sic] people.'') ________________ Michael McNeil 3Com Corporation "All disclaimers including this one apply" (415) 960-9367 ..!ucbvax!hplabs!oliveb!3comvax!michaelm
matt@brl-tgr.ARPA (Matthew Rosenblatt ) (09/18/85)
> Okay, this is a cheap shot, but I'll take it. > If there were as many Jews as you say, and if, as was > claimed in the original posting on this topic, this was > at the time of a Roman attack, how come we lost? The Jews at that time were divided into all sorts of warring sects. There were Baryonim (Zealots), Sadducees, Minim (early Christians), etc. With so much dissension, the Jews did the Romans' work for them. -- Matt Rosenblatt