[net.religion.jewish] Kahane & the State of Israel

arig@cvl.UUCP (Ari Gross) (11/18/85)

> The premise is also open to question, since this is an overt
> policy of only 1 member of the Israeli parliament, Meir Kahane,
> a real sicko.  I must admit, however, that the Likud party has
> been distressing cavalier towards the property owners of the
> West Bank.

> andy

  Recent public opinion polls in Israel have predicted that
Meir Kahane could win as many as 12 seats if elections were
held in the near future. Now why might so many people vote for
"a real sicko" like Kahane ? Could it be because he says crazy
things like "the Land of Israel belongs to the Jewish People"
and "Arabs that cannot reconcile themselves to the fact that
Israel is here to stay should strongly consider relocating"?
Maybe it's his outrageous "racist" statements like "the Jews
are G-d's Chosen People"?
	
    ari gross

lazarus@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Andrew J &) (11/20/85)

In article <970@cvl.UUCP> arig@cvl.UUCP (Ari Gross) writes:
>  Recent public opinion polls in Israel have predicted that
>Meir Kahane could win as many as 12 seats if elections were
>held in the near future. Now why might so many people vote for
>"a real sicko" like Kahane ? Could it be because he says crazy
>things like "the Land of Israel belongs to the Jewish People"
>and "Arabs that cannot reconcile themselves to the fact that
>Israel is here to stay should strongly consider relocating"?
>Maybe it's his outrageous "racist" statements like "the Jews
>are G-d's Chosen People"?
>	
>    ari gross

The _New Republic_ article on Kahane ("A Jewish Monster") is recommended
for anyone who wants to know what Kahane is really saying.  (This magazine
takes a strongly *pro-Israel, pro-Zionist, anti-PLO* stance.)

He is quite explicit -- Arabs should be expelled, period.
Last year he suggested a South-Africa-like ban on Jewish/Arab sexual relations. 

BTW, everybody's favorite ultra-sicko Adolf Hitler won more than
12 Reichstag seats in 1932, so this argument doesn't overwhelm me.

andy

mr@homxb.UUCP (M.RINDSBERG) (11/24/85)

> In article <970@cvl.UUCP> arig@cvl.UUCP (Ari Gross) writes:
> >  Recent public opinion polls in Israel have predicted that
> >Meir Kahane could win as many as 12 seats if elections were
> >held in the near future. Now why might so many people vote for
> >"a real sicko" like Kahane ? Could it be because he says crazy
> >things like "the Land of Israel belongs to the Jewish People"
> >and "Arabs that cannot reconcile themselves to the fact that
> >Israel is here to stay should strongly consider relocating"?
> >Maybe it's his outrageous "racist" statements like "the Jews
> >are G-d's Chosen People"?
> >	
> >    ari gross
> 
> The _New Republic_ article on Kahane ("A Jewish Monster") is recommended
> for anyone who wants to know what Kahane is really saying.  (This magazine
> takes a strongly *pro-Israel, pro-Zionist, anti-PLO* stance.)
> 
> He is quite explicit -- Arabs should be expelled, period.

What is wrong with expelling the arabs ???? Obviously they are not happy in
Israel (i.e. terrorist actions, etc) so what is wrong with handing
them over to their brothers in 22 other muslim countries where they can live
however they please.
Actually the problem is that arabs in Israel are very happy.
Arabs in Israel live better than they would in any
other country in the middle east. There is wonderful social security, and they
do not have to serve in the army nor pay taxes.
BTW,  Expelling is not a new thing, it has been performed many times before
with perfect results.

> Last year he suggested a South-Africa-like ban on Jewish/Arab sexual relations
> 
> BTW, everybody's favorite ultra-sicko Adolf Hitler won more than
> 12 Reichstag seats in 1932, so this argument doesn't overwhelm me.
> andy

Some comparison !!!!

				mark

lazarus@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Andrew J &) (12/04/85)

In article <939@homxb.UUCP> mr@homxb.UUCP (M.RINDSBERG) writes:
 [ >> is me]
>> 
>> The _New Republic_ article on Kahane ("A Jewish Monster") is recommended
>> for anyone who wants to know what Kahane is really saying.  (This magazine
>> takes a strongly *pro-Israel, pro-Zionist, anti-PLO* stance.)
>> 
>> He is quite explicit -- Arabs should be expelled, period.
>
>What is wrong with expelling the arabs ???? Obviously they are not happy in
>Israel (i.e. terrorist actions, etc) so what is wrong with handing
>them over to their brothers in 22 other muslim countries where they can live
>however they please.
>Actually the problem is that arabs in Israel are very happy.
>Arabs in Israel live better than they would in any
>other country in the middle east. There is wonderful social security, and they
>do not have to serve in the army nor pay taxes.

I don't quite understand the meaning of this?!  The Arabs in Israel proper
are neither eager to leave (they could easily do so) nor very happy.
They are, however, at home, where their families lived before them.
I suspect the claim that they pay no taxes is rubbish, but perhaps
someone else can enlighten us.  
If the Israeli Arabs are 'very happy', that would be yet another
argument *against* expelling them.

>BTW,  Expelling is not a new thing, it has been performed many times before
>with perfect results.

Yeah?  And many times with unpleasant results:  Spain 1492, Portugal 1496.
Let's try Vietnamese boat people (many of Chinese ancestry).
How about the Five Civilized Tribes of Florida, or the Nez Perce,
or any of the other major American Indian tribes.
Come on, you tell me, what are these 'perfect' expulsions.

I didn't say that Kahane's ideas were new (even for Jews, if we
look back at the Maccabees).  I said they were sick.

>> BTW, everybody's favorite ultra-sicko Adolf Hitler won more than
>> 12 Reichstag seats in 1932, so this argument doesn't overwhelm me.
>> andy
>
>Some comparison !!!!
>
>				mark

If you (or more accurately, Ari Gross) wish to argue that Kahane is
respectable because he might win 12 seats in the Knesset, then
you *have to explain* why the same reasoning does not apply
to Hitler.  This comparison was extreme and chosen deliberately
to indicate that your argument is fallacious.


andy

mr@homxb.UUCP (M.RINDSBERG) (12/06/85)

> In article <939@homxb.UUCP> mr@homxb.UUCP (M.RINDSBERG) writes:
>  [ >> is me]
> >> 
> >> The _New Republic_ article on Kahane ("A Jewish Monster") is recommended
> >> for anyone who wants to know what Kahane is really saying.  (This magazine
> >> takes a strongly *pro-Israel, pro-Zionist, anti-PLO* stance.)
> >> 
> >> He is quite explicit -- Arabs should be expelled, period.
> >
> >What is wrong with expelling the arabs ???? Obviously they are not happy in
> >Israel (i.e. terrorist actions, etc) so what is wrong with handing
> >them over to their brothers in 22 other muslim countries where they can live
> >however they please.
> >Actually the problem is that arabs in Israel are very happy.
> >Arabs in Israel live better than they would in any
> >other country in the middle east.There is wonderful social security, and they
> >do not have to serve in the army nor pay taxes.
> 
> I don't quite understand the meaning of this?!  The Arabs in Israel proper
> are neither eager to leave (they could easily do so) nor very happy.
> They are, however, at home, where their families lived before them.
> I suspect the claim that they pay no taxes is rubbish, but perhaps
> someone else can enlighten us.  
> If the Israeli Arabs are 'very happy', that would be yet another
> argument *against* expelling them.
> 
> >BTW,  Expelling is not a new thing, it has been performed many times before
> >with perfect results.
> 
> Yeah?  And many times with unpleasant results:  Spain 1492, Portugal 1496.
> Let's try Vietnamese boat people (many of Chinese ancestry).
> How about the Five Civilized Tribes of Florida, or the Nez Perce,
> or any of the other major American Indian tribes.
> Come on, you tell me, what are these 'perfect' expulsions.
> 
> I didn't say that Kahane's ideas were new (even for Jews, if we
> look back at the Maccabees).  I said they were sick.
> 
> >> BTW, everybody's favorite ultra-sicko Adolf Hitler won more than
> >> 12 Reichstag seats in 1932, so this argument doesn't overwhelm me.
> >> andy
> >
> >Some comparison !!!!
> >
> >				mark
> 
> If you (or more accurately, Ari Gross) wish to argue that Kahane is
> respectable because he might win 12 seats in the Knesset, then
> you *have to explain* why the same reasoning does not apply
> to Hitler.  This comparison was extreme and chosen deliberately
> to indicate that your argument is fallacious.
> andy

Kahane is NOT advocating the killing of anybody !!!! Hitler DID !
mark