hfavr@mtuxo.UUCP (a.reed) (03/23/86)
Frank Silbermann writes: > Have you ever heard assimilated Jews speaking disparagingly of Orthodox > (esp. Chassidic) Jews? If so, then try to find out why. Whatever > reasons you can discover come up with will probably sound like the same > excuses gentiles have given for disliking Jews throughout history. I beg to differ. The only secular Jews whom I have known to bear any animosity toward the Orthodox, and especially toward the Haredim, were secular Israelis who personally suffered as a result of violent coercion practiced by the Haredim in Israel. In one case, an Armenian Christian, who is a close friend of one of my cousins living in Jerusalem, lost an eye when his car was stoned by Haredim, while driving through the city one Saturday morning. Now, as far as I know there is no Halachic justification for throwing stones without, at minimum, making sure that the victim is actually a Jew desacrating the Shabbat, rather than a non-Jew ignoring it. Yet every week the Haredim throw deadly stones, quite without bothering to check whether the car they are stoning is driven by a Jew. In another case, a Hungarian woman who married a Jew after being converted by a Neolog (Hungarian Reform/Conservative) rabbi, and later made aliah with her husband, was buried next to her husband in a Jewish cemetary. A gang of Haredim dug up her corpse and dumped it in a shallow unmarked grave in the Moslem cemetary of another town. I have heard too many reliable reports of this kind of thing to believe that these were exceptional events. The Haredim in Israel engender hatred by coercing secular Israelis to conform to the wishes of the Haredim, on pain of violence if they don't. Since Jews in other countries never presumed to coerce their neighbors in any way, the claim that there is any similarity between anti-Haredi sentiments and western anti-Semitism is patently absurd. Rather, the psychotic compulsion to make others conform to one's ethnic standards, which outside Israel is the defining characteristic of the anti-Semite, in Israel has become the most obtrusive characteristic of "Jewish" Haredim. I've lived there, so I know. Adam Reed (ihnp4!npois!adam)
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (03/26/86)
>Frank Silbermann writes: >> Have you ever heard assimilated Jews speaking disparagingly of Orthodox >> (esp. Chassidic) Jews? If so, then try to find out why. Whatever >> reasons you can discover come up with will probably sound like the same >> excuses gentiles have given for disliking Jews throughout history. Adam Reed writes: >I beg to differ. The only secular Jews whom I have known to bear any >animosity toward the Orthodox, and especially toward the Haredim, were >secular Israelis who personally suffered as a result of violent coercion >practiced by the Haredim in Israel. I wasn't thinking of Israeli Haredim, but the Orthodox here in America. Maybe it's not full animosity, but I have heard and read of assimilated Jews expressing frutration and annoyance when speaking of the Orthodox. Frank Silbermann
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (03/26/86)
In article <1439@mtuxo.UUCP> hfavr@mtuxo.UUCP (a.reed) writes: > >In one case, an Armenian Christian, who is a close friend of one of my >cousins living in Jerusalem, lost an eye when his car was stoned by >Haredim, while driving through the city one Saturday morning. Now, as >far as I know there is no Halachic justification for throwing stones >without, at minimum, making sure that the victim is actually a Jew >desacrating the Shabbat, rather than a non-Jew ignoring it. Yet every >week the Haredim throw deadly stones, quite without bothering to check >whether the car they are stoning is driven by a Jew. Does Halacha permit throwing stones on Sabbath? Only within the bounds of an Eruv, perhaps? Perhaps Israeli drivers should fight back with rubber bullets. Get a friend to "ride shotgun". Frank Silbermann