dim@ucla-cs.UUCP (10/24/85)
Apeuthynomai se osous Ellynes spoudazoun sto exwteriko se thetikes epistymes y etoimazontai gia tetoies spoudes. Eidika apeuthynomai se OSOUS THELOUN NA GURISOUN STYN ELLADA kai THELOUN NA KANOUN KATI HRYSIMO GIA TYN PATRIDA me tis gnwseis pou tha paroun. Aformy pairnw apo to munyma tou Petrou Petropoulou pou san ylekrologos myhanikos(;), pou thelei na kanei metaptuhiakes spoudes styn Ameriky, dialegei ton tomea tou ylektromagnytikou pediou, pros megaly mou apogoyteusy mia kai me vriskei teleiws antitheto mia tetoia epilogy. Dustoihws oi perisoteroi apo mas epilegoun to pedio twn spoudwn tous me deutereuonta krityria, opws to poio mathyma mas arese styn Ellada y se poio tomea kaname ty diplwmatiky mas, kai oxi me to spoudaiotero krityrio tou ti tha kanoume epagelmatika sto mellon. Dylady leipei apo tis apofaseis mas "o epagelmatikos prosanatolismos" pou toso aneptugmeno exoun oi Amerikanoi spoudastes pou ton xreiazontai ligwtero apo mas. Dioti mia epilogy sumfwna me to poio mathyma mas arese y pou kaname ty diplwmatiky mas (kai ta duo kata kanona perissotero tuhaia) einai apodekty apo mia hwra tou megethous kai tys anaptuxys tys Amerikys alla einai shetiky poluteleia gia tyn Ellada. Y Ellada, ektos pou einai mikry kai den borei na sykwsei oles tis eidikotytes, exei meinei kai pisw sxetika me tis alles hwres tys Dusys. To apotelesma tys diaforas einai oti y paragwgy twn proiontwn mas, twn kataskeuwn mas kai twn epistymonikwn upyresiwn mas (opws mia melety gia ty molinsy tys Athynas) usterei sxetika me twn allwn xwrwn kai apo pleuras poiotytas (Ameriky, Voreia Eurwpy klp) kai apo pleuras kostous (Taiwan klp) me apotelesma na eisagoume ta panta. Osoi loipon endiaferontai na voyhysoun epistymonika tyn Ellada tha prepei na antilyfthoun oti y veltiwsy tys paragwgys (poiotyta kai kostos) exei safws prwteraiwtyta apenanti se thewrytikes ergasies (opws sta AEI opou vasika paragoume papers gia ta Amerikanika periodika kai exoume kai tyn apaitysy o Ellynikos laos na mas plyrwnei gia auto). Hreiazomaste perissotero anaptuxy tehnologias para anaptuxy ereunas pou tha prepei na akolouthysei argotera. Akomy kai y efarmosmeny ereuna einai ahrysty (kuriolektika aeras) an sto telos den parahthei auto pou thewrytika shediasame. Styn Ameriky boreis na kaneis hrysimy hewrytiky ergasia giati kapoios styn paragwgy tha tyn efarmwsei, alla styn Ellada mas leipei autos o kapoios kai tha prepei emeis na ton antikatastysoume. Y epilogy toy tomea twn spoudwn mas, alla kai tou periehwmenou tous, tha prepei na vasizetai prwta se mia apofasy gia ton pioo tomea tys paragwgys tha helame na boythysoume na anaptyhthei. Meta meletame ti gnwseis tha mas hreiastoun gia auto. Dialegoume to Panepoistymeio pou prosferei ena programa spoudwn pou tha mas voythysei na kataktysoume autes tis gnwseis. Kai telos dialegoume ton kathygyty me ton opoio tha sunergastoume, analoga kai me tis ikanotytes tou alla kai me to thema tys diatrivys pou tha kanoume mazi tou. Episys se oly ty diarkeia twn spoudwn mas den tha prepei na perioristoume sta mathymata kai ty diatrivy mas alla tha prepei na platunoume to euros twn gnwsewn mas me sullogy praktikwn plyroforiwn pou tha mas kanoun "etoimous paiktes" gia tyn Ellada otan tha gurisoume. Praktiky exaskisy ta kalokairia y gia kanena hrono meta tis spoudes mas se mia etairia einai mallon aparaityty. Gia paradeigma egw san ylektrologos myhanikos dialexa tous computers gia metaptuhiakes spoudes giati to thewrysa to poio hrysimo gia tyn Ellada, an kai den ytan o klados pou mou arese perissotero. Kai tha thewrisw tis spoudes mou epituhymenes otan tha eimai etoimos na PARAGW kapoia computer proionta kai oxi otan tha ehw anaptuxei kapoio algorithmo gia ty diatrivy mou. Antitheta oi gnwseis se ylektromagnytiko pedio odygoun elahista (oxi toulahiston amesa, alla auto to amesa mas hreiazetai an theloume na plysiasoume tis pio anaptugmenes hwres) styn paragwgy. To idio ishuei kai gia spoudes se pio efarmosmeno klado alla opou kapoios tha mathene mono "pou sunklinei y deutery paragwgos ..." y gia "analysy eustatheias". Telos tha yhela na parakalesw osous mellontikous doktores na myn ehoun to mialo tous mono se panepistymiaky thesy alla na pane styn paragwgy (the real thing pou lene) kai an ginetai na anoixoun oi idioi mia paragwgiky kai ethnika hrysimy epihyrisy pou tha antikatastysei tis eisagwges proiontwn alla kai xenwn hrusoplyromenwn eidikwn pou kalame opote ehoume provlyma. Auta ta polla gia osous me tis spoudes tous theloun na voythysoun tyn Ellada otan gurisoun, kai sugnwmy gia to "kyrugma" kai to megethos tou. Diafwnei arage kaneis; Swkratys Dymytriadys (apo Thessaloniki kai twra apo University of California at Los Angeles, Computer Science Department : dim@LOCUS-UCLA.EDU)
nick@rti-sel.UUCP (Nick Kanopoulos) (10/29/85)
> > Aformy pairnw apo to munyma tou Petrou Petropoulou pou san > ylekrologos myhanikos(;), pou thelei na kanei metaptuhiakes spoudes > styn Ameriky, dialegei ton tomea tou ylektromagnytikou pediou, > pros megaly mou apogoyteusy mia kai me vriskei teleiws antitheto > mia tetoia epilogy. Giati? Ean eisai antithetos epidi pisteueis oti den yparxoun efarmoges s'auton ton tomea stin Ellada tote nomizw oti xreiazesai na meletisis kalytera tis anages tis ellinikis pragmatikotitas ston texnologiko to- mea.An kai den pisteuw oti i epilogi tou kladou pou tha xrisimeysi gia tin anaptyksi tis ellinikis oikonomias einai anagea i kaliteri lysi(mia kai i efarmogi twn gnwsewn stin paragwgi eksartate kata poly apo mi texnikous paragontes,p.x kybernitiki politiki)apo kathara texniki apopsi eidikotita se Hlectromagnitika Pedia(Microwaves in a broad sense)mporei na xrisimopieithei stous ekseis tomeis opuo yparxei anagi,mikros arithmos mixanikwn me synxrones gnwseis,kai texnologiki kathisterisi sxetika me proigmenes xwres. O.T.E :Grames metaforas,zeukseis me omoaksoniko kalodio,asyrmates zeukseis. Alithia ksereis posa nisia exoun tilefwno mesw mias monadikis zeuksis pou kataskeuastike apo ksenous eidimones? Amyna :Sxedwn apoklistika ola ta systimata pou xrisimopoioun ta tria opla gia epikoinwnies,countermeasures,countrcountermeasures,kai inteligence einai kataskeuasmena apo allous.Fisika den xreiazwntai sxolia edw oson afora tin epidrasi stin oikonomia(i Ellada dapana to upsilotero % etisiou proypologismou gia amyna se sxesi me tis alles xwres tou nato)kai ethiniki aneksartisia. Genika : Katapolemisi tou karkinou(orismenes morfes)me mikrokymata, TV ypostathmoi(signal relay),sxediasmos newn doryforikwn zeyksewn gia tin nausiploia. > > ergasies (opws sta AEI opou vasika paragoume papers gia ta Amerikanika > periodika kai exoume kai tyn apaitysy o Ellynikos laos na mas plyrwnei O protistos rolos tou kathigiti (toulaxiston ston elliniko xwro)einai autos tou daskalou.Den nomizeis oti auto einai spoudea euthini pou an ginetai swsta auti kathe auti prosferei polytimi ypirisia ston topo? > gia auto). Hreiazomaste perissotero anaptuxy tehnologias para anaptuxy > ereunas pou tha prepei na akolouthysei argotera. Akomy kai y > efarmosmeny ereuna einai ahrysty (kuriolektika aeras) an sto telos > den parahthei auto pou thewrytika shediasame. Styn Ameriky boreis > na kaneis hrysimy hewrytiky ergasia giati kapoios styn paragwgy > tha tyn efarmwsei, alla styn Ellada mas leipei autos o kapoios > kai tha prepei emeis na ton antikatastysoume. Einai arketa parakindineymeno kai sigoura apolito xwris wmos na einai alithino oti eisxirizesai pio panw.I ereyna den einai axristi se kamia periptwsi.An to apotelesma tis den "paraxthei"auto exei na kanei me tin oikonomiki prooptiki tou apotelesmatos san proion kai tin geniki politiki tis kyvernisis n tns etairias gia tin opoia ginetai n ereyna.Oso gia ton isxyrismo oti ta apotelesmata tis ereunas stin ameriki kapoios ta efarmozei i parapanw protasi isxyei kai edw. > > kai ty diatrivy mas alla tha prepei na platunoume to euros twn gnwsewn > mas me sullogy praktikwn plyroforiwn pou tha mas kanoun "etoimous > paiktes" gia tyn Ellada otan tha gurisoume. Praktiky exaskisy ta > kalokairia y gia kanena hrono meta tis spoudes mas se mia etairia > einai mallon aparaityty. Gia paradeigma egw san ylektrologos Symfonw me osa les parapanw alla nomizw oti to ti einai "praktiki" pliroforia einai mallon ypokimeniko kai dyskolo na oristhei. > myhanikos dialexa tous computers gia metaptuhiakes spoudes > giati to thewrysa to poio hrysimo gia tyn Ellada, an kai den ytan > o klados pou mou arese perissotero. Kai tha thewrisw tis spoudes > mou epituhymenes otan tha eimai etoimos na PARAGW kapoia computer > proionta kai oxi otan tha ehw anaptuxei kapoio algorithmo gia ty Ti einai computer proionta?? An diladi anaptykseis ena montelo(agorithmo) pou na lynei as poume tin sygentrwsi twn poloutants stin atmosfera kai na provlepei tin metakinisi tous ston xrono auto den einai xrisimo computer proion? > > Telos tha yhela na parakalesw osous mellontikous doktores na myn ehoun > to mialo tous mono se panepistymiaky thesy alla na pane styn paragwgy > (the real thing pou lene) kai an ginetai na anoixoun oi idioi mia > paragwgiky kai ethnika hrysimy epihyrisy pou tha antikatastysei > tis eisagwges proiontwn alla kai xenwn hrusoplyromenwn eidikwn pou > kalame opote ehoume provlyma. > Kales oi protropes alla den nomizeis oti aplopoieis ta pragmata se vathmo syzitisis tou kafe!An kati xwlenei stin Ellada einai i akadimaiki ekpedeusi kai mono swsti doulia edw apo mellondes Dr.s mporei na paragei mixanikous pou tha kseroun osa uperaminesai s'ayto to gramma.Oso gia tin dimiourgia mias epixirisis,xreiazesai na symvouleuseis prwta tous epixeirimaties,meta tin ekastote kyvernisi pou kathorizei nomous leitourgias twn epixeirisewn kai ws ek toutou prooptikes gia tin epiviwsi tous,kai teleutaia tous Dr.s.Ksereis polloi apo aytous endiaferontai gia ypsilis poiotitas texniki douleia oxi omws kai gia accounting,marketing,sales,k.l.p pou einai isws o kormos epityxeias mias etairias. An exeis antiriseis gia tis apopseis mou(pou tis vazw sto net. gia tin dimiourgia dialogou kai apantisi stin erwtisi an diafwnei kaneis)parakalw poste them sto net. kai ksanasyzhtame. Geia xara apo N.Carolina. Nikos *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***