dms@fluke.UUCP (04/18/86)
>Someone a while back on the net said that most major >soap manufacturers use sodium tallowate as one of >their ingredients. Well, I checked around and sure >enough that turned out to be true much to my >surprise. >But other brands such as Ivory and Jergens who >say their soap is "Pure and Natural" or "Naturally >Mild" do not bother to list their ingredients. So, >what does that mean? Should I assume there is no >sodium tallowate in it? In broadest terms, a soap is simply a salt of a fatty acid. Traditionally, soap is made by adding sodium hydroxide (lye) to tallow (rendered fat). Frequently a can of lye will have the recipe printed on the side of it. In the old days, pioneer type folks made it with potasium hydroxide obtained by extracting the soluble material from wood ashes if lye was not available. Then the soap would be potassium tallowate, I suppose. Glycerine soap simply uses glycerine as the fat. I suppose one could make soap using vegetable fat, but I've never heard of it. I'd be willing to bet Ivory is made from tallow. The main thing that makes commercial soap more mild than homemade (granny's lye soap) is that they do a better job of getting the lye to completely react with the fat. The more free alkalai is the better the soap cleans and the more of your skin it dissolves in the process. David Sherman decvax\ John Fluke Mfg Co. ihnp4 >!uw-beaver\ PO Box C9090 MS 275G allegra >!fluke!dms Everett, WA 98206 USA ucbvax >!lbl-csam / (206) 356-6373 hplabs/
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (04/21/86)
In article <1631@vax3.fluke.UUCP>, dms@fluke.UUCP (David Sherman) writes: > >Someone a while back on the net said that most major > >soap manufacturers use sodium tallowate as one of > >their ingredients. Well, I checked around and sure > >enough that turned out to be true much to my > >surprise. I don't mean to nitpick, but ``tallow'' is not a specific chemical substance (there are MANY kinds of tallow), and ``sodium tallowate'' is NOT a legitimate chemical name. Tallow will typically yield at least three fatty acids: stearic acid, palmitic acid, and oleic acid. > In broadest terms, a soap is simply a salt of a fatty acid. > ... > I suppose one could make soap using vegetable fat, but I've never heard > of it. I'd be willing to bet Ivory is made from tallow. There are several fatty acids presently used in soap manufacture which can be derived from solely vegetable material: lauric acid coconut oil, laurel oil myristic acid coconut oil palmitic acid palm oil capric acid coconut oil arachidic acid peanut oil > of it. I'd be willing to bet Ivory is made from tallow. The main thing > that makes commercial soap more mild than homemade (granny's lye soap) > is that they do a better job of getting the lye to completely react > with the fat. The more free alkalai is the better the soap cleans and > the more of your skin it dissolves in the process. The actual composition of soaps (especially for consumer use) is generally held by the manufacturer as a trade secret. While a manufacturer may extoll the virtues of a particular ingredient, the true composition is not publicly revealed. The composition of consumer soaps is especially complex; it is also difficult and sometimes impossible to obtain an accurate chemical analysis of such a soap, if given a sample. It is not unusual for a more "complex" soap such as a "cosmetic" soap to contain ALL of the following: (1) sodium hydroxide (alkalai) (2) potassium hydroxide (alkalai) (3) triethanolamine (alkanolamine - organic base) (4) ammonium hydroxide (base) (5) palmitic acid (fatty acid) (6) oleic acid (fatty acid) (7) liquid petrolatum (petroleum oil) (8) lanolin (cholesterol esters) (9) Triton X-100 * (surfactant) (10) Triton CF-10 * (surfactant) (11) sorbitol (stabilizer) (12) carboxymethylcellulose (emulsifying agent, stabilizer) (13) perfume (14) coloring agent (15) water * Triton is a registered trade name of Rohm & Haas The above is very close to the composition of some actual soaps. I speak with a bit of firsthand knowledge, since my late father managed various soap manufacturing plants for over 30 years, and I grew up with this stuff. For anyone seriously interested in the formulations of soaps, I would suggest obtaining literature from such companies as Rohm & Haas, Union Carbide, Dow Chemical, etc. who manufacture surfactants, alkanolamines, and other chemical products used in soap. Freely available application literature provides some methodology behind soap formulation. ==> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York ==> UUCP {decvax|dual|rocksanne|rocksvax|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry ==> VOICE 716/688-1231 {rice|shell}!baylor!/ ==> FAX 716/741-9635 {G1, G2, G3 modes} seismo!/ ==> "Have you hugged your cat today?" ihnp4!/
jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (04/22/86)
> I suppose one could make soap using vegetable fat, but I've never heard > of it. I'd be willing to bet Ivory is made from tallow. There are many varieties of soaps made exclusively from vegetable sources (fats AND glycerines), some of which are also made without animal testing - Mill Creek and Weleda fall into this category. One source for several brands of soaps, shampoos and cosmetics is InterNatural, PO Box 463, Baker Hill Rd, S. Sutton, New Hamster 03273. They carry Tom's of Maine, Bach Flower Remedies, Aubrey soaps and deodorants, Green Ban (the herbal alternative to flea powder) and lots of other stuff. By the way, all castile soap is made with pure olive oil and always has been. -- jcpatilla ..{seismo,allegra}!umcp-cs!aplcen!osiris!jcp Show me a man with both feet firmly on the ground and I'll show you a man who can't take his pants off.
jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (04/22/86)
> > I suppose one could make soap using vegetable fat, but I've never heard > > of it. I'd be willing to bet Ivory is made from tallow. > > By the way, all castile soap is made with pure olive oil and > always has been. Also, Palmolive is so called because it is made from palm and olive oils (or used to be, anyway). Palm oil is about the cheapest oil available and is used in many big-name commercial soaps. Lever Bros. is a Dutch company that got its big start with oil palm plantations in Africa (for a socialogical perspective, see "The Palm Wine Drunkard".) -- jcpatilla ..{seismo,allegra}!umcp-cs!aplcen!osiris!jcp Show me a man with both feet firmly on the ground and I'll show you a man who can't take his pants off.
cth@goedel.UUCP (Chris Todd Harmon) (04/22/86)
> But other brands such as Ivory and Jergens who > say their soap is "Pure and Natural" or "Naturally > Mild" do not bother to list their ingredients. So, I had the same question. Ivory has a toll-free number on the package to call "if you have any questions or comments about Ivory." I called to ask, and sure enough, "Ivory does contain some tallow." Tallow counts as natural because its not man made. Other soaps are similar. The best solution I've found so far is kosher soap: It's made entirely from coconut oil. Chris