ins_aset@jhunix.UUCP (Susanne E Trowbridge) (07/15/86)
Hello,
I am a recent convert to vegetarianism, and was a bit dismayed to
find out that this newsgroup isn't exactly high traffic. Therefore,
I thought I'd post myself. I have some questions, which I hope
somebody will reply to, either in this forum or by e-mail.
1. I have heard that there are different types of vegetarians,
including lacto-vegetarians and vegans. What is the difference?
2. What are some of the essential vitamins and minerals in meat
which must be supplemented in other ways in the vegetarian's diet?
3. I have decided to continue to eat fish and seafood as well as
chicken very occasionally. Is this common, or do most vegetarians
shun all food that came from a living creature?
4. Have you encountered any hostility due to your decision to
become a vegetarian?
5. What are some foods which may have "hidden" animal content
(i.e. beef broth in some soups, foods which use animal fat)?
6. What are the best vegetarian cookbooks?
I hope to hear from you soon!!
--
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Sue Trowbridge
arpa : ins_aset%jhunix.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
uucp : ...{ihnp4!whuxcc | seismo!umcp-cs | allegra!hopkins} jhunix!ins_aset
(or) : ...decvax!decuac!aplvax!aplcen!jhunix!ins_asetprimer_2@h-sc4.harvard.edu (jeremy primer) (07/16/86)
ins_aset@jhunix.UUCP (Susanne E Trowbridge) asks these questions, and I offer what personal answers I can. This is not definitive, not complete, and not meant to exclude other answers to the same questions. >3. I have decided to continue to eat fish and seafood as well as >chicken very occasionally. Is this common, or do most vegetarians >shun all food that came from a living creature? Very common. Many Americans now are turning to a diet of fish and some chicken, most wishing to improve their health. And then many of these people find they don't even like the chicken or seafood all that much, and they wind up eating as you have now begun to do. Rather than trying to decide where vegetarianism begins and ends in a doctrinaire way, I prefer to recognize a spectrum with the steak-and-potato fans at one end and Adam and Eve at the other, with minute cultural distinctions speckling the middle range. >4. Have you encountered any hostility due to your decision to >become a vegetarian? I'm not exactly a vegetarian . . . more precisely I keep kosher to some degree and virtually never eat meat except when visiting my parents. Because of the religious issue here, I have met with hostility from some of my secular Jewish friends, who wonder why I follow a patriarchal religion without following the patriarchy, and see only hypocrisy [the smarter ones: only neurosis] in this. With or without religion, though, vegetarianism is an ethical stance which evokes latent hostility in many a meat-eater. >5. What are some foods which may have "hidden" animal content >(i.e. beef broth in some soups, foods which use animal fat)? Find any orthodox Jewish guide to keeping kosher (the laws of *kashrut*) which has been written in the last ten years. The best of them will tell you that "mono- and di-glycerides" may come from animal or vegetable sources, that "baguettes non-moulees" in Paris have no animal fat, that small quantities of some ingredients may be added to or substituted in various foods without appearing on the label, and generally a USENET-like quantity of information. Unfortunately I don't know the names or authors of any of these books, but any Jewish bookstore which carries English-language books should have them. Some specific examples to answer this question: baked goods, many soups, Chinese or Mexican (or . . .) food, gelatin and frozen deserts, yeah . . . >6. What are the best vegetarian cookbooks? I use and enjoy Mollie Katzen's *Moosewood Cookbook*, which is an agglomeration of recipes used at the Moosewood restaurant. I am told that it's selling like mad in Boston-area bookstores. Check it out. Jeremy Primer primer@h-ma1.harvard.EDU Department of Mathematics primer%h-ma1@harvard.ARPA 1 Oxford Street primer@harvma1.BITNET Cambridge, MA 02138 ...!harvard!h-ma1!primer (Avoid e-mailing to me at h-sc4.)
mo@well.UUCP (Maurice Weitman) (07/16/86)
In article <3175@jhunix.UUCP> ins_aset@jhunix.UUCP (Susanne E Trowbridge) writes: >Hello, >I am a recent convert to vegetarianism, and was a bit dismayed to >find out that this newsgroup isn't exactly high traffic. Therefore, >I thought I'd post myself. I have some questions, which I hope >somebody will reply to, either in this forum or by e-mail. > >1. I have heard that there are different types of vegetarians, >including lacto-vegetarians and vegans. What is the difference? Lacto-v... eat dairy, ovo-v... eat eggs, and vegans, well, they not only don't eat *any* animal products, but most don't *use* anything that comes from an animal: obviously leather and furs, but also more obscure things like most soaps and even things like film (which con- tains gelatin). The general idea is to not exploit or benefit from the use of (other) animals. Truly, vegans are the ne plus ultra of vegies. >2. What are some of the essential vitamins and minerals in meat >which must be supplemented in other ways in the vegetarian's diet? I think B-12 is the only thing you'd likely to be missing, but I do think it's a good idea to take a mineral and vitamin supplement. >3. I have decided to continue to eat fish and seafood as well as >chicken very occasionally. Is this common, or do most vegetarians >shun all food that came from a living creature? Sue, I don't think there is such a thing as "most vegetarians". I've been a vegie for over ten years, and, except for one hot dog at a baseball game (yukko!), haven't eaten any beef or fowl. For about three months, I did eat seafood (at the time I lived with a woman who ate everything). And for three years, I ate no dairy or eggs (during which time, I felt the best, by the way). I have known many people who abstain from beef to consider themselves veg- ies, but, really, I think a vegie won't eat any animal. I also think that shouldn't matter to you: you should eat what you feel comfortable eating, both morally and politically (not to mention for health), without regard to the name you/they put on "it". It would be better for you and the world to eat as little animal-based food as possible, but the key is for you to feel good about it so that you can sustain it. It's really not hard! As with any change in lifestyle/habit, it will take some energy and time to adjust and learn and settle in to a comfortable regimin. And it can be a pain in the ass socially: dinner at other people's homes, barbeques, many restaurants, etc. are not necessarily ideal places for vegies, especially while it's new for you, too. >4. Have you encountered any hostility due to your decision to >become a vegetarian? Minimal. Mostly from people who don't feel good about eating other animals themselves. But, I'm from Berkeley, and unless you're dif- ferent here, you're considered wierd. %-) Some friends who knew me b.v. had/have a hard time (Oh, you STILL don't eat meat???) with it, but generally, it's your comfort with it and attitude about it that will determine how others react. >5. What are some foods which may have "hidden" animal content >(i.e. beef broth in some soups, foods which use animal fat)? You've got the idea... soups, sauces, Mexican foods (lard), etc. >6. What are the best vegetarian cookbooks? Some of my faves: _Laurel's Kitchen_, has a great section, nearly half the book, devoted to nutrition, with many interesting recipes; _Moosewood Cookbook_ and _The Enchanted Broccolli Forest_, both by Mollie Katzen, really good, tasty dishes; _Diet for a Small Planet_ and _Recipes for a Diet..._, both by Frances Lappe' Moore (or F.M.L.) these books started (for me at least) the political awareness of eating lower on the food chain (it takes seven times as much grain to get the same amount of protein by eating a cow than the grain she eats), and the concept of protein complementarity (balancing foods to enhance the quaility of protein, a concept which seems to have become less important with recent information). These should give you a good start! >I hope to hear from you soon!! -- Good luck, and enjoy it! maurice -- Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors. Maurice Weitman 9600 ..!{hplabs,lll-crg,ptsfa,glacier}!well!mo | 57600 (415)549-0280 voice (415)549-0388 modem-2400 this^is not 300 mcimail mweitman a pipe 110 P. O. Box 10019 Berkeley, CA 94709
cottrell@sdics.UUCP (Gary Cottrell) (07/16/86)
One kind of vegetarian you probably haven't heard of is my kind:
sauso-lacto-ovo-vegetarian - I eat eggs, dairy products, and occasionally,
sausage!
gary cottrell
Institute for Cognitive Science, UCSD
cottrell@nprdc (ARPA)
{ucbvax,decvax,akgua,dcdwest}!sdcsvax!sdics!cottrell (USENET)singh@glacier.ARPA (Harinder Singh) (07/17/86)
First of all, I've never encountered any hostility about being a vegetarian. Other than a couple of `Love Animals, Don't Eat Them' bumper stickers and T-shirts, I don't proselytize although I'm happy to explain and discuss whenever anyone asks why I'm a vegetarian. If done gently, the other person (non-vegetarian) is usually the one feeling apologetic. Now for cookbooks - I have all of the following but that doesn't mean I've tried them all. It is comforting to have 'em around so I can try things as and when the spirit moves me! (I'm omitting some that have already been mentioned.) `The Electric Vegetarian - natural cooking the food processor way' by Paula Szilard and Juliana Woo. An excellent book, esp. for the beginner. Very systematic and delicious recipes. `Cooking From An Italian Garden - over 300 classic meatless recipes, from antipasti to dessert' by Paola Scaravelli and Jon Cohen. `Italian Vegetarian Cooking' by Jo Marcangelo. `American Wholefoods Cuisine' by Nikki and David Goldberg. Over 1300 meatless, wholesome recipes from short order to gourmet. `Greene on Greens' by Bert Greene. Does have some non-veg recipes in it. (So do some of the others listed, unless they say `vegetarian' in the title.) `From the Farmer's Market' by Richard Sax and Sandra Gluck. Has some non-veg. `Fast Vegetarian Feasts - delicious healthful meals in under 45 minutes' by Martha Rose Shulman. `The Tassajara Recipe Book - favorites of the guest season' by Edward Brown. `The Spice Box - Indian Vegetarian Cooking' by Manju Shivraj Singh. `Indian Vegetarian Cooking' by Jack Santa Maria. `World of the East - Vegetarian Cooking' by Madhur Jaffrey. `The Vegetarian Epicure' by Anna Thomas. `Chinese Vegetarian Cookbook' by Florence Lin. `Vegetarian Times Cookbook' by the Editors of Vegetarian Times. `The Vegetarian Barbeque - a guide to gourmet eating outdoors' by David Eno. `Greek Vegetarian Cooking' by Alkmini Chaitow. `Jewish Vegetarian Cooking' by Rose Friedman. `Mexican Vegetarian Cooking' by Edith Metcalfe de Plata. `The McDougall Health-Supporting Cookbook - vol. 1' by Mary McDougall. `The Four Seasons Wholefood Cookbook'' by Susan Thorpe. `The Cookbook for People Who Love Animals' by ??. Copyright by World of God, Inc. `Vegetarian Gourmet Cookery' by Alan Hooker. `Vegetariana - A Rich Harvest of Wit, Lore and Recipes' by Nava Atlas. `Vegetarian Cooking' and `International Vegetarian Cooking' - Sunset Books and Magazine. Also useful to have around - (not particularly vegetarian) `Wok Cookery' and `More Wok Cookery' by Ceil Dyer (HP Books). Jane Brody's book on Nutrition and her (The NYT) Guide to Personal Health. Reader's Digest's `Eat Better, Live Better'. The General Electric `Microwave Guide and Cookbook'. ----------------- Phew! I better get to bed - it's way past bedtime. Good luck! - Inder
wild@sun.uucp (Will Doherty) (07/18/86)
> 2. What are some of the essential vitamins and minerals in meat > which must be supplemented in other ways in the vegetarian's diet? The real worry about the lack of meat in one's diet is making sure that one gets the proper complement of proteins. I do this by trying to eat at least one meal a day where I combine some form of grains with some form of legumes. > 5. What are some foods which may have "hidden" animal content > (i.e. beef broth in some soups, foods which use animal fat)? One that Maurice didn't mention is that many cheeses have rennet, which comes from veal stomachs or intestines. I'm new to this newsgroup as well, though I've been a veg for about six years now. Will Doherty UUCP: ...sun!oscar!wild ARPA: "oscar!wild"@sun.com
denham@8702.dec.com (The darkest hour is before dawn.) (07/20/86)
>1. I have heard that there are different types of vegetarians, >including lacto-vegetarians and vegans. What is the difference? A lacto-oevo-vegetarian eats milk, eggs, and vegetable products. A lacto-vegetarian eats milk and vegetable products, but no eggs A vegan eats only vegans. >2. What are some of the essential vitamins and minerals in meat >which must be supplemented in other ways in the vegetarian's diet? Vitaman B-12, zinc, and iron. Calcium if you are a vegan. It depends upon what you do eat. For example, eggs supply iron. Seafood supplies zinc. >3. I have decided to continue to eat fish and seafood as well as >chicken very occasionally. Is this common, or do most vegetarians >shun all food that came from a living creature? It is a common healthy diet. I don't think I would call it vegetarian though. >4. Have you encountered any hostility due to your decision to >become a vegetarian? I was a vegetarian for several years before giving it up in favor of a diet including fish and poultry. I was shunned at dinners. People having heard all sorts of things about what vegetarians do/do not eat since various people eat various things, were afraid to feed me anything. Dating was also a problem, since there was always a question of what would you eat in a resturant? Would you object to me ordering some meat? >5. What are some foods which may have "hidden" animal content >(i.e. beef broth in some soups, foods which use animal fat)? There are lots of things to look out for. Many brands of yogurt and ice cream contain gelatin. Many commercially baked goods are baked using animal fat. Vegetables cooked with 'just a little ham'.
jayasim@uiucdcsb.CS.UIUC.EDU (07/24/86)
/* Written 3:03 pm Jul 20, 1986 by denham@8702.dec.com in uiucdcsb:net.veg */
> A vegan eats only vegans.
Ha! Ha! I'm reminded of a joke.
Tourist (lost in jungle) meets a jungle-man.
Tourist: I'm a vegetarian.
Jungle-man: I'm a humanitarian myself.
d n jayasimha,
U of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana.vange@stolaf.UUCP (Erin L. Vang) (07/26/86)
> Sue Trowbridge @ arpa : ins_aset%jhunix.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU: > 1. I have heard that there are different types of vegetarians, > including lacto-vegetarians and vegans. What is the difference? Ovo-lacto vegetarians and vegans, as far as I know, are the same thing. They shun any and all animal products, including eggs and dairy products. There's also macrobiotic vegetarians, who avoid extreme yin and yang foods (yin foods include red meats, spices, yang foods include I forget what, but I may have them switched around) and perhaps have further concerns. > 3. I have decided to continue to eat fish and seafood as well as > chicken very occasionally. Is this common, or do most vegetarians > shun all food that came from a living creature? It varies according to motive for vegetarianism. I'm eating a vegetarian diet because I'm poor, I tend to feel better (I think), and this way I don't have to worry as much about whether my morals are messed up. Thus, I've eaten quite a bit of these things. I just don't generally purchase them. > 6. What are the best vegetarian cookbooks? Mollie Katzen's Moosewood Cookbook The Enchanted Broccoli Forest Francis Moore Lappe's Diet for a Small Planet Sequel to same
ecl@mtgzy.UUCP (e.c.leeper) (07/30/86)
> > Sue Trowbridge @ arpa : ins_aset%jhunix.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU: > > 1. I have heard that there are different types of vegetarians, > > including lacto-vegetarians and vegans. What is the difference? > > Ovo-lacto vegetarians and vegans, as far as I know, are the same > thing. They shun any and all animal products, including eggs > and dairy products. As several previous posters have pointed out, this is not true. Ovo-lacto-vegetarians eat eggs and dairy products, lacto-vegetarians eat dairy products but not eggs, vegans eat neither. Evelyn C. Leeper (201) 957-2070 ihnp4!mtgzy!ecl mtgzy!ecl@topaz.rutgers.edu Resistance is useless if less than 1 ohm.
dupuy@amsterdam.columbia.edu (Alexander Dupuy) (08/09/86)
References:
In earlier discussions, people have said that you aren't a vegetarian if you
eat chicken or fish, leading to the current discussion on whether ovo/lacto-
vegetarians do or don't eat eggs/milk. While this is technically correct,
there is really a continuum of moral questions here, and while I don't consider
people who avoid red meat vegetarians in any real sense of the word, I thought
I would quote some of a passage in the book which finally convinced me that I
should be a vegetarian, *Animal Liberation*, by Peter Singer.
[from the chapter entitled "Becoming a Vegetarian"]
"The reason for [refusing to eat slaughtered birds or mammals] may be the
belief that it is wrong to kill these creatures for the trivial purpose of
pleasing our palates; or because even when these animals are not intensively
raised they suffer in the various other ways described in the previous chapter.
Now more difficult questions arise. How far down the evolutionary scale
shall we go? Shall we eat fish? What about shrimps? Oysters? To answer these
questions we must bear in mind the central principle on which our concern for
other beings is based. As I said in the first chapter, the only legitimate
boundary to our concern for the interests of other beings is the point at which
it is no longer accurate to say that the other being has interests. To have
interests, in a strict non-metaphorical sense, a being must be capable of
suffering or experiencing pleasure. ...
So the problem of drawing the line is the problem of deciding when we are
justified in assuming that a being is incapable of suffering. ... With birds
and mammals the evidence is overwhelming. Reptiles and fish have nervous
systems that differ from those of mammals in some important respects, but share
the basic structure of centrally organized nerve pathways. Fish and reptiles
show most of the pain behavior that mammals do. ...
When we go beyond fish to the other forms of marine life commonly eaten by
humans the existence of a capacity for pain becomes more questionable.
Crustaceans---crabs, shrimps, prawns, lobsters---have nervous systems that are
more like those of insects than those of vertebrate animals. They are complex
enough but so differently organized from our own that it is difficult to be
confident one way or the other about whether they feel pain. ... There may be
room for doubt, but it does seem that crustaceans deserve the benefit of the
doubt.
Some other edible sea creatures, however, belong to a very different order.
Oysters, clams, mussels, scallops and the like are mollusks, and mollusks are
in general very primitive organisms. ... Those who want to be absolutely
certain that they are not causing suffering will not eat mollusks either; but
somewhere between a shrimp and an oyster seems as good a place to draw the line
as any, and better than most.
... What I have written may surprise some vegetarians, since, after all,
mollusks are animals. But even the line between animal and vegetable realms is
not precise, as disagreements among biologists about newly discovered
micro-organisms regularly show. So long as we keep in mind the reasons for
being a vegetarian we will be less concerned with a rigid adherence to the
animal/vegetable distinction, and more concerned with the nature and
capabilities of the being we are thinking of eating."
So what am I? a lacto-ovo-mollusco-vegetarian, although I don't always
give small crustaceans the benefit of the doubt (something I am not proud of).
@alex
arpa: dupuy@columbia.edu
uucp: ...!seismo!columbia!dupuytookman@endot.UUCP (08/15/86)
I grew up as a vegetarian since my parents both were. They became vegetarians after converting to the Seventh-day Adventist religion. I'm not sure that the animal 'suffering' was the reason for not eating meat but rather the general cleanliness of the animal. As a side comment, I remember once reading in a Reader's Digest that the Seventh day Adventists as a whole had less heart trouble basically due to the foods they ate (or didn't eat!) They also stayed away from seafood and chicken (which some don't consider to be "meat"). I always told people we just wouldn't eat anything that "had babies" and that seemed to clear things up. That is except for those who wanted to argue about whether or not vegetables/fruits/plants "had babies"....!! kathy