lmg@houxb.UUCP (L.M.Geary) (03/07/84)
# The discussion about Sears credit cards reminds me of another of life's annoyances: stores that won't accept conventional credit cards. Last fall I was shopping for shirts in Syms Clothing store. It took me almost an hour to find three good shirts (I'm tall and thin and picky, too), then I loaded up on underwear and headed for the checkout counter. As I stood there, arms overflowing, I saw the SIGN: "Cash, checks and Syms charge only." I flushed red with embarassment and anger, broke out of line and confirmed it with a clerk. It was true. I couldn't pay. I had to put everything back where I found it. I don't carry cash. I don't *believe* in cash. I'm anxiously awaiting the dawn of the cashless society. I carry a few bucks in emergency money in case I can't find an Exxon station or have a Big Mac Attack, but other than that I live by Visa, MC and AmEx, and just about anyplace I'm likely to patronize will accomodate me. Checks? Who besides Bob Keeshan can carry a checkbook in his pants pocket? Who actually *accepts* checks without also asking for a major credit card for ID? Checks are for paying credit card bills. Rhetorical questions aside, why do some stores insist on issuing their own credit cards and rejecting commonly available cards? Syms has six stores in the universe and discounts, so it isn't prestige. You might say they can't afford the overhead the card vendors charge, but the same could be said of the audio/video joints, and *they* take cards. Macy's and Bamberger's issue their own cards. The Rainbow Room takes American Express. What gives? Any ideas? Larry Geary AT&T Information Systems Holmdel, NJ ...houxb!lmg
mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (03/07/84)
One reason is probably the charge the store must pay to Visa or Master Card as a service fee. I think it's something like 3% of the amount of the transaction. Thus, if you pay by credit card, the store is getting only 97% of the purchase price, but if you pay by cash or check, they get the full price. (Actually, when you consider the number of bad checks, they get less than 97% on a typical check, which is why they usually discourage them.) If they have their own credit card, they incur the costs of credit billing, which are much lower than 3% if they are large enough to afford the overhead of having a credit department. Stores that accept plastic have to raise their prices for everybody to cover this charge, which is why the cheapest places (fast food, grocery stores, small self serve gas stations) don't accept plastic. Then again, you never know. A salesman from EMC2 memory was speeding from Toledo to Columbus to make a sales appointment with us. He was pulled over by an Ohio State Policeman. Ohio has recently passed a law where they confiscate your drivers license after a moving violation, but since he had an out-of-state license, he couldn't confiscate it. So the officer demanded immediate payment of the fine. You wouldn't expect the average person to have $50 or so cash on him. But the officer accepted Visa! Had the little shoop-shoop machine right there in the back of his patrol car.
whp@cbnap.UUCP (03/07/84)
The charge for some credit cards is around 6%, such as AmEx. Visa is around 3%, which is why many more stores prefer Visa to AmEx. In addition, even stores without their own credit card have some accounting expense, so the addition cost of having their own credit card is probably a bit less than you'd think. W. H. Pollock
ntt@dciem.UUCP (Mark Brader) (03/07/84)
Larry Geary (houxb!lmg) says: Checks? Who besides Bob Keeshan can carry a checkbook in his pants pocket? Who actually *accepts* checks without also asking for a major credit card for ID? Checks are for paying credit card bills. Some stores have "counter checks", which are like ordinary check forms except that you fill in the bank information. And as for ID, many stores here consider a drivers license sufficient (and here we don't even have pictures on them); in fact, I've even been asked specifically for my license even when they accept a credit card as ID. But the other thing you could try is writing a check on a BLANK piece of paper. It's perfectly valid (in the US and Canada and Britain, anyway). Of course, you have to include all the essential information: DATE BANK NAME AND ADDRESS Pay to the order of: PAYEE NAME AMOUNT IN NUMBERS AND AGAIN IN WORDS Account: NUMBER YOUR SIGNATURE Whether you can get them to accept it is another matter, but if you have ID... During banking hours they could phone the bank and verify your account number. Me, I never assume a store takes my credit cards, and if I go to a place that doesn't, I bring my checkbook or I get cash from an ATM first. Mark Brader Toronto, Canada
rcd@opus.UUCP (03/08/84)
<> > I don't carry cash. I don't *believe* in cash. I'm anxiously > awaiting the dawn of the cashless society. . . . So am I - providing I can be cashless and still have some measure of anonymity. I don't much like the idea that in a couple of years someone who doesn't need to know can find out that Saturday morning I went to the grocery store for a bunch of food, then went to buy two sixpacks, then bought a copy of Cerebus, went to the lumberyard and bought some plywood and nails...you get the idea. I've already complained about Radio Shack's habit of wanting your name/address every time you buy something, and aside from the junk catalog, one of my concerns is that they don't need to know who I am and what I'm buying. Yes, I'm afraid of 1984 phenomena! Incidentally, it may be of interest that one Denver paper's consumer column had an item in which the head of the local bank card (MC/Visa) company stated that they DO NOT require a phone number or any other identification (beyond a signature that matches the card and a check of the stolen-card list) for use of their cards. You might check this in your area (and I'd like to hear; I'll post results if I get enough responses). The other point in the article is that as often as not the reason for asking for (spurious) identification for bank card purchases is to try to get lazy/careless clerks through a routine to be sure that they get enough info on the charge. > Who actually *accepts* checks without also asking for > a major credit card for ID? . . . For one, anyone who accepts my checks! If I offer a check, they can damn well take it with proper ID (driver's license or check guarantee; maybe both). If I want to pay with MC/Visa/AE, I'll do that and the store can pay the fee to the bank card company, BUT if they don't take the card OR if I choose not to use it, they're not going to get the benefit of the bank card company for identification. Moreover, I have my own standards for what I consider appropriate identification. I've had stores ask for my employer or work phone, and I've refused. (They've conceded the point.) If a store imposes unreasonable identification requirements, refuse. If they won't take no for an answer, leave the merchandise there (let THEM put it back) and walk out. Go home and write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper. This hits the unreasonable merchant where it hurts. I'm not against using bank cards, but they have their place. > Rhetorical questions aside, why do some stores insist on issuing > their own credit cards and rejecting commonly available cards?. . .You might > say they can't afford the overhead the card vendors charge, but the same > could be said of the audio/video joints, The reason IS the cost of taking bank cards. Audio/video joints can afford the overhead because most audio/video equipment is marked up by enormous margins. [Don't believe me? Look at some of the "discounts" they offer - sometimes as much as 50% off - and remember that stores don't stay in business by selling merchandise at a loss!] Margins on clothing and such are much lower than on appliances, audio eqpt., and the like. Any charge card has a cost - store cards obviously involve one less hand in your pocket and thus cost less. [Another illustration: Grocery stores have very low profit margins, depending on high volume to make money. How many grocery stores accept charge cards?] -- {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd
dsn@umcp-cs.UUCP (03/08/84)
From Larry Geary <lmg@houxb.UUCP>: Checks? Who besides Bob Keeshan can carry a checkbook in his pants pocket? Who actually *accepts* checks without also asking for a major credit card for ID? Checks are for paying credit card bills. Mild flame: I'm not sympathetic to your complaint. There's no problem carrying checks--just carry half a dozen of them in your wallet. Often I prefer to pay with a check. That way, there's no paperwork at the end of the month. -- Dana S. Nau ...!seismo!umcp-cs!dsn (Usenet) dsn.umcp-cs@CSNet-Relay (Arpanet)