bob@sdcsvax.UUCP (02/27/84)
I've heard several people grumbling about Sears -- they pressure you into filling out an application, then they reject you rudely. This happened to me a few years ago. I stumbled onto a credit "feature:" I requested the reasons for rejection (provision of Fair Credit Reporting Act). They sent some vague form; I wrote back and said the information wasn't specific enough -- like, how much did they THINK I earned, what were my estimated liabilities, what was an acceptable ratio. They sent me the card!
thor@ihuxw.UUCP (Mark Kohls ) (02/28/84)
I had a similar experience after graduating from college. I applied and was rejected for *you-guessed-it* lack of a long enough credit history. I protested with the famous chicken-and-egg response, "Well somebody has to be the first to give me credit, why not you!" The credit person said that didn't matter, but I could probably get one if I had a college degree or a longer work history. I said I had a college degree, but there was no spot on the application to put such information. She then replied, "Oh well we have a different form you can fill out, etc., etc." and "Why didn't you list it as a previous job-most people do, etc." A couple weeks later I got the card in the mail. I posted this as WARNING to the numerous college-student type individuals on the net who will doubtless endure the same treatment. Be prepared to get a rejection, but don't just take it at face value. Mark Kohls ihnp4!ihuxw!thor
ken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow) (02/28/84)
--
My experience with Sears was quite the opposite of those posted.
But this was over 10 years ago, in Wisconsin. Some friends and
I, hippies all, were trying to rebuild a trashed-out farm house.
We were looking for gas heating supplies, which we found at Sears.
The total bill for it all was over $600 (1973 $), and
we had very little money. But the salesman must have been
desperate for a commission, because he suggested buying on credit.
I told him I had no job or decent credit history, but he said to
put *HIS NAME* down as a reference! I got the card. And we did a
very nice job on the house. I still have the card.
--
*** ***
JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** *****
****** ****** 28 Feb 84 [9 Ventose An CXCII]
ken perlow ***** *****
(312)979-7261 ** ** ** **
..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken *** ***swatt@ittvax.UUCP (Alan S. Watt) (02/28/84)
Regarding credit card applications, all I can say is keep at it. The
following story should illustrate the wide diversity of credit
standards applied.
Several years ago, I finally could not manage any more without credit
cards (ITT practically forces you to have one in order to make business
trips), so at about the same time I applied for both a MasterCard
through my bank, and for a Getty Oil card, as I happened to buy most of
my gas at a Getty station. The two applications asked essentially the
same information, which I supplied truthfully and in full. The Getty
application had a space for how much I expected to charge each month,
which I gave as $30. The MasterCard application wanted me to select a
credit limit, which I put as $1000.
Several weeks later I got a letter from the Getty offices in Oklahoma
(I think), rejecting my application. The letter was of course very
polite and said I could request the reasons for the rejection. I
promptly did this, referring to the file number in the rejection
letter. My reply was also very polite and matter-of-fact.
In due course, I got the information from Getty. They explained
they had a standardized credit rating system which took many
factors into account, etc., etc., and that my rating was too
low because:
[1] I rent rather than own a house.
[2] Their credit experineces with people in my
age category.
[3] The length of time with my present employer.
[4] I did not list any other oil company or
major credit cards.
And should I have any corrections or additions to make to
my application, they would be delighted to hear from me,
etc., etc.
This was rather ironic, as in the interim I had received my MasterCard
from the bank. So I promptly wrote back to the person handling my
Getty file and said:
[1] Guilty as charged.
[2] Did the application get smeared? Are you sure
you recorded my date of birth as 1951?
[3] About average in the hi-tech programming industry.
[4] True at the time, but based on exactly the same information
I supplied to you, my bank just granted me a MasterCard.
The bank is ...; the account # is ...
Please re-consider my application in light of above, etc., etc.
Hot on the heels of my new MasterCard came an "invitation to apply" for
an American Express Card ("The Card") by none less than Scott V. Marks,
V.P. of Marketing. He said (I paraphrase):
Dear Mr. Watt:
The Card is not for everyone. It is designed for those people
who have demonstrated maturity and responsibility in their
personal spending patterns ...
Based on your credit history, I am sure you qualify, and I invite
you to apply for The Card.
[Quite obviously, either my bank, or some credit agency they used to
investigate my references passed my name on to Amex].
I was rather tickled by this, but aside from amusement, the no fixed
limit to the American Express card had a definite appeal to me for use
on company trips, so I applied.
By now you have no doubt guessed the outcome: Getty thanked me very
much for the additional information, but regretted that they could not
extend me the privilige of their credit card at this time. American
Express was delighted to offer me the services of their card. No, I
didn't bother writing back to Getty a third time.
My conclusion from all this, if I have one, is that applications through
your bank, especially if you have had an account for a year or more, have
a better chance than through "commercial strangers" like Sears and the like.
Once you have one major credit card, the problem then becomes how to
prevent proliferation of new cards as every store in creation wants to
give you "instant credit" rather than accept your check.
Alan S. "Capitalism may not be better than Socialism, but
it sure is a lot more amusing" Watt2141smh@aluxe.UUCP (henning) (02/28/84)
I had a similar experience when I graduated from Oregon State. I received numerous unsolicited credit cards with my college address or my parents address. Rather than file a change of address when I moved to Pennsylvania I destroyed the cards and got new ones in PA. One company, Gulf Oil, turned me down. I have been boycotting Gulf Oil ever since, 22 years and over 35,000 gallons of gas latter.
reza@ihuxb.UUCP (H. Reza Taheri) (02/28/84)
{}
I got my Sears credit card when I was still in college, with no
credit history and no money. Furthermore, they had many reasons not
to give me credit, e.g. my visa status. You ask "how did he get it"?
One day I was walking through the Student Union (in U. of Wisconsin,
Milwaukee) when some guy sitting at at a table stopped me and offered
to give me an application for a Sears credit card. At first I was
reluctant, not knowing what exactly the credit was goning to get me
and why was this guy so interested in helping me. To make a long story
short, he was with some kind of a student organization and they had some
kind of an understanding with Sears.
I applied for the card and received my card in two weeks. So, for
those of you who are still in college, check what your student
government might have.
Be careful out there.
H. Reza Taheri
...!(most major machines on the net)!ihnp4!ihuxb!reza
(312)-979-1040fish@ihu1g.UUCP (Bob Fishell) (02/29/84)
(oo)
Sears seems to be particularly persnickety about approving credit, and
they're pretty stingy about credit lines when they do. I applied for
a Sears charge shortly after arriving in Illinois, and was turned down
because I hadn't lived at the same address long enough. Two years later,
I had no problem, but my credit line is only $660 (how did they arrive
at such an odd figure?). By contrast, Montgomery Ward *gave* me a credit
card, on a pre-approved application, and I have a $3000 limit on that.
I guess M.W. is a little more eager for my business.
--
Bob Fishell
ihnp4!ihu1g!fishjnj@mb2c.UUCP (Jim Jackson) (02/29/84)
Another bit of advice. My wife tried to get a sears credit card in her name but was rejected. A friend of hers worked in the sears credit department and recommended that she NOT list her 2 children (they are not her financial responsibility as far as credit applications go) and she NOT list the mortgage or any other joint bills we share. It seems that when they compare HER bills with HER income, they can't justify extending her any credit (when she reports only her income and all of OUR bills)
wsm@mh3bs.UUCP (02/29/84)
I'll add my experiences to the list of "How to get a credit card (in my
case Sears and Mobil).
When I was at school, I got a letter from Sears "inviting" me to get one
of their cards. I filled out the application, listing income as $0
(yes ZERO!) and listed the college and bookstore as credit references
(the accounts were in my name, although I got the money to pay them
elsewhere). A few weeks later, they called me back to confirm the
data, and after they were done, said I would be getting a card shortly.
Around the same time, I got a similar letter from Mobil Oil. I did
the same thing, with the same result.
Walt Morris AT&T Technologies, Summit {ihnp4,allegra}!eagle!mh3bs!wsmdjb@cbosgd.UUCP (David J. Bryant) (02/29/84)
I also had a similar experience with Sears. While an undergraduate,
I applied for a Sears card and was turned down for all the obvious
reasons. Shortly thereafter, I was shopping with my fiance at J.C.Penney's
and decided to give them a try. While my fiance was making her purchases
of some ladies undergarments, I picked up a credit card application
and started filling it out to kill time. The clerk interrupted to say
that she was glad I was applying for a Penney's card, and that she would
need to write the store number and department name on my application
(for internal accounting purposes, no doubt). She took my application,
and in large letters wrote on the top "Department: Ladies Intimate Apparel".
We all laughed about the response that might cause in the credit department.
In fact, I got my Penney's card less than a week later. I immediately
went back to Sears, brandished my Penney's card in their face, and filled
out another application, this time listing J.C.Penney's as a credit
reference. In two days, Sears called back to say that they were happy to
be sending me my own Sears card.
* *
David Bryant
AT&T Bell Laboratories
* Columbus, OH 43213
* (614) 860-4516
* .
. djb@cbosgd.UUCP
cbosgd!djb@Berkeley.ARPA
* *ksh@cbosgd.UUCP (Karen Summers-Horton) (02/29/84)
Our experience with a Sears credit card was quite different. We applied for a J.C Penney credit card, and received it. About 4 months later, we received Sears credit cards in the mail. We had never applied, and didn't shop much at Sears. Do department stores share this kind of information? When you get one department store credit card, do all the others find out? Has anyone else ever had this happen? Karen Summers-Horton
crl@pur-phy.UUCP (Charles LaBrec) (02/29/84)
I and many of my friends were solicited through the mail by Sears shortly before we graduated from college. No one I know who applied for one was turned down. In fact, when one of my friends went to buy a VCR for his parents, he wanted to use credit but was about $500 short. The salesman told him to go to the credit office and they immediately increased his limit to whatever he needed. Charles LaBrec UUCP: pur-ee!Physics:crl, purdue!Physics:crl INTERNET: crl @ pur-phy.UUCP
vince@fluke.UUCP (02/29/84)
Speaking of Sears credit cards, I have become greatly annoyed at Sear's efforts to get me to apply for their credit card, to the point that given a reasonable choice, I will shop elsewhere. When I have gone to Sears, I politely ask the cashiers to inform their management that I do not appreciate their badgering in the hope that other people are doing the same and that eventually Sears would get the message. Does anyone know why Sears persists with this practice to the point of driving customers away? Is anyone else but me concerned that Sears will shortly (or already does) have the credit history of 95+% of the adults in this country? Paranoia is one thing, but in the wrong hands ...
gordon@cae780.UUCP (Brian Gordon) (03/01/84)
[Living sacrifice to assuage the gods of first lines . . .]
The Sears transfer story hit a familiar chord. When I moved from South
Carolina to California, Sears wrote and asked if I didn't think it would be
more convenient for me if I moved my account closer to my new location. It
sounded like a good idea to me, so I filled out their forms and sent them in.
As in the other reported experience, it took months for the paperwork within
Sears to get straightened up. The first bill I got in California was stamped
with the notation that this was the second past due bill they had sent, and
they were about to take further action to collect my past due bills!!
FROM: Brian G. Gordon, CAE Systems
USENET: {ucbvax, ihnp4, decvax!decwrl}!amd70!cae780!gordon
{qubix, hplabs}!cae780!gordon
USNAIL: 1333 Bordeaux Drive, Sunnyvale, CA 94089
AT&T: (408)745-1440
From the world of the middle of four-part harmony.dhc@exodus.UUCP (David H. Copp) (03/01/84)
Give us some more details about your shopping trip... -- David H. Copp
ix21@sdccs6.UUCP (03/02/84)
I had an unusual experience with Sears. At the shopping center near
my school (UCSD), the Sears store was offering free gifts to anyone
who filled out a credit application. The first time I filled out an
application I was asked if I was a student and I eventually received
a card with a $300 credit limit. (The gift was a digitial watch)
About a month later I passed by the booth and was asked to fill out an
application; I told the person I already had a card. She said to fill
out an application anyway; I would get a gift, she would get a
commission, and I might get my credit limit raised. Over the next 2
weeks I eventually filled out five applications and received a variety
of gifts, some plants and two more watches. Each time I filled out an
application my limit was raised $100; regardless, of the fact I used
the same information on each application.
The watches died after three weeks.
David Whiteman {sdcsvax!sdccs6!whiteman}tim@minn-ua.UUCP (Tim Giebelhaus) (03/02/84)
There seems to be a margin of some type where they won't send you a card unless you ask them why not. I know a few people who have gotten cards after being refused just by asking why they didn't get it. Do you suppose that it is because they are getting their credit references from a source that they don't want to reveal? Perhaps they figure that if you are persistant enough about why not, they figure that you you must be an OK credit risk. That is, if you don't know of anything bad on your credit record, then you are a better credit risk than the person who knows that they have thirty bounced checks and are 4 months behind in their phone bill. Anyone have any ideas about this?
emma@uw-june (03/02/84)
Your experience with Getty is interesting. When I was a senior, I received an application from Chevron that said, in essence, "Sign Here", with no additional information required. That was how I got my first credit card... -Joe P.
dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (03/02/84)
In some jurisdictions, credit grantors are not allowed to send out
unsolicited cards. I believe such is the case in Ontario, although I'm
not positive. The sanction is that debts incurred with the card are
not enforceable.
Dave Sherman
--
{allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsrgv!davesmeier@ihuxt.UUCP (S. Meier) (03/02/84)
>Sears credit card department has another **NEAT** feature. When you >move out of one of their billing regions you *DON'T* just mail your >payments to a different address; you *must* get a new credit card >complete with new account number! Think of all of the possibilities >for error. Something about your card number tells them where it was issued. When I graduated from U of Illinois, I got a Sears Credit Card, Two months later, I moved to Los Angeles to attend graduate school at USC. Soon after I arrived there, I decided to buy a color television at Sears for ~$250 (my credit limit was $350). The salesman took one look at my credit card, and said, ``Oh, this is from Chicago. Go up to the credit department.'' Which I did. They made me fill out an application for transfer of credit. I pointed out that the credit card had printed on it: "Use this card in any Sears store anywhere" which made absolutely no difference to anyone there. The next day they called me up to tell me that my application for credit was rejected because: a. I had not lived at my current address long enough. b. I had never used my Chicago-issued Sears card. So I went to Montgomery Wards and bought a television with my American Express (no questions asked). About one week later, I got a new credit card from Sears of California, with the same credit limit I had had in Chicago, sent automatically when I sent in my change of address. What a bunch of bloody useless loonies! Steve Meier Naperville, Il.
snafu@ihuxi.UUCP (Dave Wallis) (03/02/84)
Sounds like the only consistant thing about Sears is their
inconsistancy. I got a Sears credit card while a senior at college in
the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, with no income. I have since moved to
the Chicago area, where I use the same card all the time. I have never
had any problems using the card wherever I go in the midwest area.
Maybe I'm just lucky! Enjoy!
--
Dave Wallis
ihnp4!ihuxi!snafu
AT&T Technologies, Inc.
(312) 979-5894ron@brl-vgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (03/03/84)
This reminds me of the "Joslins" department store chain in Denver. They had a sign at the entrance that displayed a VISA, MASTER CHARGE, and AMERICAN EXPRESS card and the words "IF YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE, WE'LL GIVE YOU ONE OF OURS." I submitted the credit application with my other credit accounts. I had all three of them (in fact I had two VISA cards). They turned me down. REASON: INSUFFICIENT CREDIT HISTORY. Evidently they only checked Colorado and since the VISA and MASTER CARD were just issued there the stupid local credit bureau had no record of them. They didn't want to go as far as to check my credit at my previous address. I never did get a card. Didn't shop there, and decided if it were a matter of life or death, I'd use the AM EX card which caused them to pay the highest discount. -Ron
ark@rabbit.UUCP (Andrew Koenig) (03/04/84)
I recently got a form letter from Sears saying something like: "Dear customer: We see that you recently bought something from us. Wouldn't you like to have a Sears credit card? Just fill in this handy application...." Thing is, I made the purchase in question with my Sears card...
rcd@opus.UUCP (03/04/84)
> Speaking of Sears credit cards, I have become greatly annoyed at Sear's > efforts to get me to apply for their credit card, to the point that > given a reasonable choice, I will shop elsewhere. When I have gone to > . . . > Does anyone know why Sears persists with this practice. . . Speaking of obnoxious practices, does anyone know why Radio Shack (and the other Tandy companies) persists in taking your name and address whenever you buy anything? I know it's so that they can send catalogs to you (and whoever next lives at your address when you move) until the end of eternity, but to me it means that I avoid them if possible and only buy things I can buy with cash (since they'll copy the address from a check). The whole thing is unbusinesslike. (Hmmm, never mind; let's just say unprofessional.) Why wouldn't it suffice to say, "If you'd like one of our catalogs, give me your address and I'll put you on the mailing list"? What's the margin in being so damn sneaky? {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd
decot@cwruecmp.UUCP (Dave Decot) (03/05/84)
Andrew Koenig:
I recently got a form letter from Sears saying something like:
"Dear customer: We see that you recently bought something from us.
Wouldn't you like to have a Sears credit card? Just fill in this
handy application...."
Thing is, I made the purchase in question with my Sears card...
And how ELSE would they have known your address? That form letter has
absolutely NO valid purpose! There must be some kind of internal contest
among Sears employees: "Use every means at your disposal to GET EVERY MAN,
WOMAN, CHILD, AND PET TO CARRY A Sears CREDIT CARD, OR *E*L*S*E* !"
Bizarre store. Wow.
Dave Decotbtb@hogpc.UUCP (B.BURGER) (03/05/84)
With all this talk of hassles getting a Sears credit card... I had a lot of trouble getting Sears to correct some incorrect charges. To make a long story short, after getting several nasty notes from them (while they failed to respond to my letters as legally required), I had to write to - the Sears president - the Postmaster General - the Federal Trade Commission to get them off my back. I mention this because someone else just told me she had similar problems getting Sears's Credit Dept. to do their job. I don't recommend getting/using a Sears credit card unless absolutely necessary. --Bruce Burger AT&T-Information Systems Lincroft, NJ
louie@cvl.UUCP (Louis A. Mamakos) (03/06/84)
Next time you buy something from a Radio Shack store, give them the address
of another Radio Shack store instead of yours. I alternate between that
and the address of the college amateur radio club. They can use the scrap
paper.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Louis A. Mamakos - Computer Science Center (Systems Staff) - Univ. of Maryland
Internet: louie@cvl.ARPA uucp: ...!{seismo,ihnp4,allegra}!rlgvax!cvl!louiemark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (03/06/84)
I'm with rcd! I avoid Radio Shack because I don't like filling out their forms when I pay cash. When I must, I have discovered that they don't care WHOSE name and address you write on the form. S. Claus North Pole
bmg@tekecs.UUCP (Barbara Gniewosz Theus) (03/06/84)
[] I don't know what to credit the difference to, but when I applied for a Sears card, my application looked like this: Employer: XXX, Pennsylvania Years of employment: 5 weeks Temporary address: Florida Years at address: 2 weeks Permanent address: Oregon Credit References: None I was given the card. This was in 1976.
phil@amd70.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (03/06/84)
I was solicted by Sears as a junior, it seemed they were especially
interested in MIT students or something. I applied and got my first
credit card that way. I charged a bunch of things right before I
moved to California, mostly auto type stuff (I drove out). Sears
of MA sent me the bill, which I paid. I also told them I had moved.
Sears of MA sent my debt to Sears of CA, but just kept the money
I sent them, didn't bother to tell anybody. I had to Xerox the
cancelled check before Sears of CA would stop dunning me for a
debt I'd paid.
Don't these people talk to themselves?
--
Phil Ngai (408) 988-7777 {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra,intelca}!amd70!philjhillis@ihuxf.UUCP (Jeffrey Hillis) (03/06/84)
My experiences using a Sears card in other than the issuing state are somewhat different. I moved up here from the south 2+ years ago and have continued to use my card as before. The first bill after I moved was forwarded to me, and I replaced the old address with my current one. Subsequent bills have come to my new address with no problem. The only inconvience I have encountered is with large purchases (I'm a tool junkie). In these cases, the salesperson has called the credit department to verify the account. J. Hillis ihuxf!jhillis
lrd@druri.UUCP (DuBroffLR) (03/08/84)
Here's one to add to the collection of Sears Credit Card war stories: While working in Spain, I bought an item (approximate value $125 U.S.) at Sears in Barcelona, using my Sears credit card, which was issued in the Chicago area. A week or so later, I returned the item (unused) for credit to my account. Each transaction was posted to my U. S. account at the dollar value of the transaction, converted from Spanish pesetas to U. S. dollars at the official exchange rate on the day of posting. The exchange rate was not the same on both days; net result -- I re- ceived a credit of a few dollars profit on what should have been a break-even!
ac4@pucc-h (Putnam) (03/10/84)
This is beginning to look like a universal way that Sears manages to screw-up people's credit histories. When I moved to Indiana from Minnesota, I went for 3 years before I received a letter from Sears noticing my changed address and informing me that my account had been moved to a new billing center in Indiana. They were even good enough to forward my outstanding balance to my new account. Trouble is, they didn't account for the payment that was in the mail. Net result: my new account had an outstanding balance for which they decided to charge me interest, while my payment did not get credited to anything because my old account had been gratuitously "closed". On the first attempt to correct their error, they credited my new account for the payment, but they left the interest charge, so they charged me $.50 service charge on my $.50 balance! It took nearly three months to get them to straighten out the mess.