[net.consumers] ? signing credit card slip without amount ?

werner@ut-ngp.UUCP (03/10/84)

#@$%  bugs

	the car-rental / credit card topic reminds me of a practice
	which makes me uneasy, every time:

	Most (all?) rental companies present you with a slip to sign
	without an amount.  What rights does that give them, actually?
	Am I signing my soul away?

	I never raised a stink, as I figure, I have my copy without
	an amount as proof that I did not sign for $$$$, but ... ????

	Did anyone ever find out "the hard way" what happens here ??

			werner @ ut-ngp	{.UUCP  or  .ARPA }

rcd@opus.UUCP (03/11/84)

<>
 >	Most (all?) rental companies present you with a slip to sign
 >	without an amount.  What rights does that give them, actually?
 >	Am I signing my soul away?
Never, NEVER do this.  In a sense, no, you are not signing your soul away,
because if you get an incorrect charge you can contest it (but be careful;
there are limitations on WHICH charges can be contested) and you can always
take direct legal action against the merchant/agency

BUT

all of this assumes that you don't mind taking the chance of a protracted
battle involving at least the merchant and the card company.  You are
giving an opportunity to misuse your charge account - almost inviting it,
in fact.  Why take the chance?  Also, remember, if you sign the blank slip
you are trusting not only the merchant but any employee who might see the
slip.

I'll suggest an alternative - suggest that you sign the slip but take your
copy out and carry it with you.  That way, the merchant has your card
number and a copy of the signature, but you will have a copy of the charge
slip which won't have any information that might be forged onto it.  When
you return and the charges are totalled, your copy of the slip is first
inserted in with the rest.  Of course, this makes your copy a very precious
item while you're carrying it, but I think it's an improvement if you must
sign a blank slip.  (Opinions?)

I'm beginning to find out that merchants will try practices which are
neither required nor approved by the card companies.  This may be one.
-- 
{hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd

dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (03/12/84)

~|	From: werner@ut-ngp.UUCP
~|	Most (all?) rental companies present you with a slip to sign
~|	without an amount.  What rights does that give them, actually?
~|	Am I signing my soul away?

One thing you can do is to write a limitation next to your signature,
corresponding to the amount of cash deposit which would be required
by the company, e.g. "NOT OVER $200", or whatever the rental agent
will accept. That might reduce your liability if something goes wrong
and the voucher is put through for a bundle of $$$.

Dave Sherman
-- 
 {allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsrgv!dave

zemon@felix.UUCP (03/21/84)

American Express issued a statement directed at exactly
this issue.  The essence was, yes you should sign if the
merchant requests it.  Amex claims to have screened
merchants so you shouldn't get a dishonest one (not with
the 8% fees Amex charges, anyway).  If you have problems,
Amex wants to hear about it, of course.

Coincidentally, on the couple of occasions when I have had
problems with my Amex account, a telephone call to an 800
number always solved it within minutes (literally).  The
solution was always that Amex removed the charge from my
account until things settled down.  They even did this for
$600 worth of airline ticket refunds (which took 60 days!)

	Art Z.

barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Barry Gold) (03/21/84)

Companies that ask you to sign a credit card slip without an amount JUST
PLAIN AREN'T DOING IT RIGHT!

The right way to use a credit card as a deposit (as done by most hotels)
is to take an impression of the credit card on a blank credit slip (which
you DON'T sign) and attach the slip to the registration form (which you DO
sign).  They then have a credit card impression to back up their claim if
you skip, but no signature to use for unauthorized charges.

If a merchant asks you to sign a blank credit card slip, I suggest you
	1) get his merchant number off the slip
	2) get the authorization number (they usually get one for purchases
	   large enough to need a credit card deposit)
	3) dig out your credit card company's complaint number (you DO
	   carry that, don't you?)
	4) Use the merchant's phone (or a public phone if they're being
	   difficult) to call your credit card company and report this
	   practice.  I bet Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, etc. would like to
	   stamp out this sort of thing, as it can involve them with
	   endless hassles under the various federal consumer credit laws.
-- 
		Barry Gold
		usenet:         {decvax!allegra|ihnp4}!sdcrdcf!barryg
		Arpanet:        barry@BNL

ron@brl-vgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (03/24/84)

Yes, you are correct, most hotels, just make an "impression"
of your card.  Really this means they are getting down the number
and other information but it's easier to use the little machine
than writing it out by hand.  If you do skip out without paying,
since you have signed responsibility for the charges (on the registration
form) they can get it out of the card company.  It is just more
convenient to submit the normal credit form.

Note too, that some hotels have rapid checkout where you just sign
a card saying, go ahead and bill me, not the charge slip.

-Ron

chip@t4test.UUCP (Chip Rosenthal) (03/29/84)

I wonder what are the ramifications of a merchant requesting an
unsigned credit card slip.  Is it:

  o  illegal?
  o  legal, but frowned upon by credit card companies?
  o  encouraged by credit card companies?

I think that the answer to this question is needed before we
can figure out what to do when faced with the request to sign
off a blank credit card slip.  Anybody have an answer?

  Chip Rosenthal, Intel/Santa Clara
  {pur-ee,hplabs,ucbvax!amd70,ogcvax!omsvax}!intelca!t4test!chip