brian@sdcc3.UUCP (Brian Kantor) (09/05/84)
Yes indeed, it is not at all unusual for the discount price to be marked on the shelf and not in the computer, so if you aren't careful, you pay the full price! No, I don't think its accidental, I think that a lot of times it is deliberate fraud on the part of the retailer, and should be prosecuted with massive fines for those who regularly do it!!! After all, the retailer has no other real incentive to do it right! After getting burned by this practice, I have dropped one store after another until I hit upon our local Gemco, which has signs posted at the register "If the price registered is different from the marked shelf price, you receive that item FREE" And yes, they mean it. Twice I've gotten an item free because they hadn't put the discount into the computer. I think more stores should do this, and we, the consumer, should boycott those stores that don't - and write a letter to the manager, local consumer advocates, better business bureau, and everyone else to raise a stink until those stores that don't have this policy straighten up! Arrgh! That felt GOOD! ihnp4 \ Brian Kantor, UC San Diego decvax \ akgua >---- sdcsvax ----- brian dcdwest/ ucbvax/ Kantor@Nosc "not at all a well cat..."
marcum@rhino.UUCP (Alan M. Marcum) (09/05/84)
If this is intentional, it is false advertising. If it's truly
accidental, going up the management chain to the store manager
will elicit an apologetic response, and it should be fixed the
next time you go to the store.
If it's the former, I'd recommend talking with the local Better
Business Bureau, and possibly consider filing a formal complaint
with, for example, a county prosecutor or attourney general.
--
Alan M. Marcum Fortune Systems, Redwood City, California
...!{ihnp4, ucbvax!amd, hpda, sri-unix, harpo}!fortune!rhino!marcumspear@ihopb.UUCP (Steven Spearman) (09/06/84)
At least in grocery stores in this area, when they install a scanner at the checkout, they promise that if the price given by the computer is different than that on the shelf, you get the item free. Kind of gives them some motivation to make sure everything is right. -- Steve Spearman ihnp4!ihopb!spear
engels@ihuxo.UUCP (SME) (09/06/84)
We were recently in a grocery store in Henderson Kentucky and purchased some allergy pills. The price stamped on the package was 3.99. The computer charged us(and told us about it-it was a talking register) 4.29. I caught the error and it held up the line-the clerk had to take our package over to the service desk to have them fixed the problem. We were surprised not to get the package for free. The local Jewel's(chicago) have a policy posted in the stores that if the computer charges the wrong price, you get the item free. I have never collected on this. Anyone have?
ark@rabbit.UUCP (Andrew Koenig) (09/06/84)
The local supermarket has taken to not marking prices on items on the shelf, but rather marking the shelf. When you go to the checkout line, the scanner on the cash register looks up the bar code on the item and finds the price. They do have some incentive to get it right though. Prominently posted near each cash register is a sign proclaiming that if an item scans higher than the posted price, it's free.
jml@drutx.UUCP (LeonJM) (09/07/84)
I once had a scanner/computer charge me the wrong price at a King Soopers (Colorado) supermarket. I didn't notice the difference until I was walking out the door looking at the sales slip. I went back to the clerk, said that there was a discrepancy with the price. He went back, checked the price and then called the manager. The manager filled out a small form quickly then the clerk gave me back all my money for that product. The whole time the clerk and manager were very nice. The manager did seem annoyed, not at me, but at the person who marked the product wrong. All in all it was a rather enjoyable experience. John Leon AT&T Information Systems Laboratories druny!jml
mbd@ihima.UUCP (Mark Dominick) (09/07/84)
My fiance' saw the scanner print the incorrect price on a bottle of wine at Osco/Jewel. When she told the cashier, she/he filled out some form and gave my fiance' the bottle of wine for free. When my finace' came over to my place after shopping and told me about the incident, I hopped in my car and went back to that same store (it was only a minute away by car). I was hoping to get some more free wine/bottles before they corrected the price in the scanner or bottles on the shelf. But I was to late, the bottles on the shelf were already corrected to match the scanner's price. I'm normally not this cheap, but I'm planning to make some wine this winter and need the (empty) bottles. Free is a great price! -- Mark Dominick ihima!mbd...IH..4B-143...(312)-979-5002
dhk@hp-pcd.UUCP (dhk) (09/09/84)
In all of the grocery stores here in Corvallis, Oregon that use electronic scanning for prices there are signs posted that if the computer charges you the wrong price for an item you get that item for free. -Dustin Kassman !hplabs!hp-pcd!dhk
ales@hpfloat.UUCP (09/09/84)
Nf-From: hpfloat!ales Sep 17 09:28:00 1984 About a week after they installed the automatic scanner system at our King Soopers (Colorado), I have purchased a dozen of eggs. I have not noticed it but the checkout clerk noticed that the price was wrong and I got the eggs free. Not bad. Ales
heiser@cca.UUCP (Bill Heiser) (09/10/84)
Along the same lines as "automatic overcharging", there have been times when I've noticed the following in supermarkets: A particular item is displayed at two points in the store; in a display marked "SPECIAL", and in its regular spot on the shelf. The price on the shelf is lower than the "special" price!
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (09/11/84)
And when King Supers in Denver instituted the scanner check out and stopped putting the prices on the individual packages, they gave out free grease pencils to those who were concerned, so that they could mark the prices from the shelf lables on the cans to make sure they were charged right on checkout (as a matter of fact, you could do it at you leisure since the receipt has the item name on it). Another peave is that King Supers employees can't use the scanners effectively (at least not when I left, which was about six months after installation). I lived next to the busiest Giant Food (the Baltimore/ Washington equivelent of King) in the chain. They were one of the first on the scanners. The checkout lines fly. They just set up a couple of empty shopping bags directly in front of the the laser window and have at it with both hands, scan and pack in one motion. I'm really impressed. In Denver, they pick up each item (one hand only) scan, and put it down and then if you are lucky enough to have a bagger, he puts it in the bag. I pointed out to the store manager the advantages of speed and number of employees to the Giant method, but he said he was concerned it would put the baggers out of business (sort of like Railroad Firemen, I suppose). I'd rather have my baggers load my car, rahter than standing around being redundant labor. -Ron
bjt@houxv.UUCP (B.TAI) (09/12/84)
Recently, I was shopping at a Shop-Rite store in N.J. that has optical scanning checkouts. I purchased an item that was on sale, but as I was leaving the store I noticed I had been charged the regular price for this item. I returned to the same cashier and told her I had been overcharged. She directed me to go to the service desk and wait in line for help. When I finally got to the service desk lady, she told me the machine had "mis-scanned" the label! RIGHT!!! She then gave me back the dime I was overcharged. No free product. No apologies. And to top it off, she made no note to do anything to correct the error. She went on to counting pennies.
crs@lanl-a.UUCP (09/13/84)
***** > ...posted near each cash register is a sign proclaiming that if an > item scans higher than the posted price, it's free. ***** How many of us can remember the posted price of every item on a shopping list? It would be interesting (but probably illegal or unethical) to test this. Say certain common items are intentionally marked up moderately compared with the posted price. Retain records of income from those items. Give the item free to anyone who challenges the price, again keeping a record of occurrances. Then after a period of time, say a month or so (better yet, a year) analyze the data to see if the vendor made more, less or the same on those items as would have been the case had the overcharge not taken place. Charlie
crs@lanl-a.UUCP (09/14/84)
As I understand the scanning checkout devices, the advantage to the store is that the price information is stored within the cash registers memory *NOT* on the bar code label which only contains product identification information. Thus, not only is there no need to mark the original price on the product, but if there is a price change the product still need not be handled. Only the shelf price *and* the machines concept of the price need be changed. Obviously this CAN lead to all sorts of misuse/abuse such as the incident mentioned by houxv!bjt where the machines concept did not reflect the sale price. I find it easy to imagine the temptation to do this intentionally not to mention the ease with which "good-faith" errors occur. In either case, I wonder what fraction of customers would notice the "error." Perhaps I'm too cynical. Charlie
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (09/14/84)
Mis-scanned, fouie. The prices aren't encoded on the cans (sale or not). Only the manufacturer and the product number are. If they didn't give you the sale discount it is because the cash register wasn't told the item was on sale. You can check to see that the item was scanned right by checking what the receipt said it was. If it said "corn flakes" and it was hamburger, then it was miscanned. I have never seen this happen. -Ron -Ron
john@hp-pcd.UUCP (john) (09/16/84)
There tends to be three stages in bringing any new technology to the masses: 1) Initial Distrust 2) slow acceptance 3) ripping off When Ma Bell came out with direct distance dialing people at first worried about how bad it would be to lose the operators. That was followed by a period when most people accepted it as being easy. Then the Phone Phreaks figured out a way to use the technology to rip off the phone company. We are now in stage two in accepting supermarket scanners. What can we look forward to with stage 3? I imagine that someone will start printing up some stick on labels with the UPC of some low cost common items. You slap one over the code on a case of beer and get charged for a can of bean soup.This is a common way to shoplift using regular price tags. You cover the real tag with a new one of lower price. If the cashier doesn't know the price and it is not to much lower then you can get away with it. With scanners it may be easier because the computer has no idea of what the real item is. It would require that the cashier look at the price for ever item that goes by. The funny thing is that it may not be illegal to offer such stickers for sale. I don't think that they are copyrighted,trademarked,patented or anything else that would make them illegal to sell. Getting caught using them would be but the poor customer would then claim that they just picked up the item and had no idea that someone had alterd it. We will see. John Eaton !hplabs!hp-pcd!john
wjm@whuxl.UUCP (MITCHELL) (09/17/84)
My experience with most of the supermarkets in Northern NJ that use scanners
is the following:
1. The stores around here still have the prices posted on the articles
(is there some NJ law to that effect - I know NYC has such a
regulation).
2. I've yet to see an article scan wrong - that is the scanner mis-read the
bar code and reported the wrong UPC code to the computer.
(Note that this does not include price table look-up errors (point 3)
or inability to read a valid bar code off the item (point 4))
3. It seems very strange that when I've seen a wrong price come up that it
is almost always in THEIR favor.
One must keep in mind that the price is not encoded in the bar code on
most items - all the code contains is the UPC for the item.
The scanner passes the UPC to the central computer (usually a mini) which
does a table look-up for the item description (to print on the register
tape) and the price. All the store has to do is program the wrong
price into the table and VOLIA - everyone gets mis-charged.
EXCEPTION - The Kings (a smaller local chain) supermarkets around here
encode their meat, deli, and bakery items with bar codes containing the
prices when they weigh and package them, so the clerks don't have to
key in the price of your hamburger at the checkout.
4. I've noticed that the NCR scanner system is more tolerant and able to
read more bar codes than IBM's, since some stores around here use
each system.
5. No one around here offers to provide mis-priced items free. The best
they will do is refund the difference when you trip their error.
6. All I can say is, Caveat Emptor and make them keep the prices on the
items.
Bill Mitchell (whuxl!wjm)ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (09/19/84)
I have noticed the Sears computers not knowing about the sale price and thus am careful to check the receipt to see that it charged what I was expecting. I've never had any problem with Sears giving me what I thought was the correct price. I frequently try to position myself so I can see the numbers on the register, so I can stop them before the sale is completely rung up, avoiding having to wait while they void out the incorrect price. -Ron
fish@ihu1g.UUCP (Bob Fishell) (09/22/84)
I don't find the prospect of bar-code price-switchers especially
frightening. For one thing, the computer (At the local supermarket,
at least) not only displays the price of an item, but a description
as well. Now, imagine the scenario wherein somebody switches a label
from a box of cheerios to a 5-lb canned ham. The voder calls out the
price, the display reads "Cheerios," the alert checker examines the
doctored ham, the store manager pinches the customer.
I once worked in a supermarket. It's a common practice for store
managers to reward employees who are alert to shoplifting and
related crimes, so you can bet that at least some of those checkers
are looking out for that sort of thing.
Now, sure, there are some mistakes made, but I'd rather live with a
few overcharges than have to wait any longer in those G** D*** lines.
--
Bob Fishell
ihnp4!ihu1g!fish