[net.consumers] shoulder belt

dan@digi-g.UUCP (Dan Messinger) (09/22/84)

My Mustang came equiped with a single piece lap/shoulder belt.  Due to the
placement of where the shoulderr belt is attached to the car (above the side
window of the REAR seat, the belt tended to ride vary high on the passenger.
In fact, it rested squarely across my wifes throat!  I replaced the belt
with a plain lap belt.

ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (09/28/84)

Another solution, which can be a pain in two door cars like the
Mustang, is to install a clip to hold the belt lower than the
strangle position.  If you were so hot on modifying your car, why
not do it right?  It seems from your comments that you believe
in seatbelts.

-Ron

knutson@ut-ngp.UUCP (Jim Knutson) (09/28/84)

DO NOT use clips to modify the placement of a shoulder belt.  Doing this
is a potential disaster in an accident.  The clip will not hold in an
accident, allowing you to travel the extra distance the belt was stretched
out from normal before it catches you.  This is just like wearing a belt
too loose.  Results?  Broken collar bones, smashed faces, ...

Consumer reports has been very picky about cars that use this method of
seatbelt placement.

dan@digi-g.UUCP (Dan Messinger) (10/01/84)

>Another solution, which can be a pain in two door cars like the
>Mustang, is to install a clip to hold the belt lower than the
>strangle position.

You already stated part of the reason I didn't put in a clip to hold the
belt in a better place.  What a pain!  A person would have to crawl
though the belts to get into the back seat.  Also, while the clips
may hold the belt in a confortable position to riding, I fear that
the stress on inpact would break the clip, allowing the belt to move back
to my wife's throat. (Keeping her chest from hitting the stearing wheel
isn't real important if her head goes though the windshield anyways ...)
There isn't anything structural near the edge of the front seat to
secure the clip to, either.  (BTW, the original shoulder belt was fine
for me at 5'10", but not for people around 5'0").

And regarding the cars that have those clips factory installed.  I have
seen may of them broken through every day tugging while getting into
and out of the seatbelts (or going though them to get to the back seat
of a two-door).  I would not trust those little clips to hold the belt
in a safe place during an accident.  In most cars, however, the clips
are only used to hold the belt in a convenient place while the belt is
not in use, and have little or no effect on the placement of the belt
when it is in use.

And yes, I am a firm believer in seatbelts.  Wouldn't drive around the
block without one (as long as it doesn't look like a noose  :-) ).

Dan Messinger
ihnp4!umn-cs!digi-g!dan

haapanen@watdcsu.UUCP (Tom Haapanen [DCS]) (10/03/84)

The problem with the malpositioned shoulder belts is limited to
American cars; European and Japanese cars have the seat belt spool
mounted on the floor, with a loop (?) on the door post for the
shoulder belt.  This allows infinitely better positioning than having
the spool (or the other end, for that matter) on the ceiling.

Maybe you should write a letter to GM/Ford/Chrysler and tell them to
get their act together.  Unless, of course, you are looking forward to
buying airbags in your next car.

The other possible (good!) solution is the purchase of aftermarket
seatbelts.  If you just want a lap belt, there are many good 3-inch
wide (7.6 cm :-) lap belts available.  If you're willing to forego a
bit of convenience, get a four-point competition system, as these
truly hold you in place, be it in cornering or in an accident.  If the
airbags become mandatory (in which case it'll be bye-bye three-point
belts), I believe many enthusiasts will be purchasing this type of
systems for their new cars.  When you're driving fast and furious, it is
dangerous having to hang on to the steering wheel so that you don't
slide around (and out of) your seat.

Tom Haapanen		University of Waterloo		(519) 744-2468

allegra \
clyde \  \
decvax ---- watmath --- watdcsu --- haapanen
ihnp4 /  /
linus  /

dan@digi-g.UUCP (Dan Messinger) (10/05/84)

>The problem with the malpositioned shoulder belts is limited to
>American cars; European and Japanese cars have the seat belt spool
>mounted on the floor, with a loop (?) on the door post for the
>shoulder belt.  This allows infinitely better positioning than having
>the spool (or the other end, for that matter) on the ceiling.

I basically agree.  My Mustang, however, has the belt spool mounted low and
inside the wall, with just a loop to pass the belt through mounted near
the ceiling.  This loop is mounted too high!  And actually, I have only
noticed this problem in Fords.  My wife has had no problems with the
seatbelts of Toyotas, Hondas, Chevettes, AMC Concords, and our full size
Blazer.  All of these vehicles that I am familiar with have mounted the
loop in a proper (lower) position that works well for short people.

One note about the Chevette.  The loop is mounted to the end of an ~8 inch
steel bar that holds the loop down from the ceiling.  The bar is swivel
mounted so it does not obstruct the doors when getting into the car.  
If I had thought of this eight years ago, I would have attempted to
install a simialar device in my Mustang.  But even the auto makers had
not though of this eight years ago..... :-)

And while I'm in the process of flaming Ford's designs, another thing
I don't like is the headrests.  (or has this been discussed already)
I thought that head rests were meant to reduce whiplash during an
accident.  The headrests in my Mustang are positioned 6 to 8 inches
behind the drivers head.  I was rear-ended a while back (not seriously,
but I did have a sore neck for a few days) and I don't think my head
came close to hitting the headrest.  I have noticed the same thing
in other Fords.  In non-Ford vehicles, the headrests are only 1 or 2
inches behind the drivers head.  This seems much more functional.
Is it really only Ford that mounts the headrests so far back?  Is there
a good reason for mounting headrests 6 to 8 inches behind the drivers
head instead of 1 to 2 inches?

(I bet some of you are wondering why I ever bought this Mustang that
I complain about so much.  Well, I didn't.  It was my wife's before
we were married.)

Dan Messinger
ihnp4!umn-cs!digi-g!dan