riddle@ut-sally.UUCP (Prentiss Riddle) (01/30/85)
I'm thinking of buying a futon -- you know, one of those Japanese beds
consisting of a simple mattress on the floor. Anyone have any suggestions?
Are there national brands I should look at or do I talk to Austin's "Little
Futon Maker"? What about mail order? And how much can I expect this to cost
me? (I'm looking for one big enough to sleep two reasonably tall adults.)
Please reply by mail and I'll summarize to the net.
--- Prentiss Riddle ("Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada.")
--- {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech,ctvax}!ut-sally!riddle
--- riddle@ut-sally.UUCP, riddle@ut-sally.ARPA, riddle@zotz.ARPAriddle@ut-sally.UUCP (Prentiss Riddle) (02/14/85)
Two weeks ago I asked this question: > I'm thinking of buying a futon -- you know, one of those Japanese beds > consisting of a simple mattress on the floor. Anyone have any suggestions? > Are there national brands I should look at or do I talk to Austin's "Little > Futon Maker"? What about mail order? And how much can I expect this to cost > me? (I'm looking for one big enough to sleep two reasonably tall adults.) Here are the responses I received. As usual, they were too many and too varied for my poor brain to boil them down into a logical summary; I settled for simply editing them a bit. Thanks to all who sent me their advice. --- Prentiss Riddle ("Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada.") --- {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech,ctvax}!ut-sally!riddle --- riddle@ut-sally.UUCP, riddle@ut-sally.ARPA, riddle@zotz.ARPA - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - As one who has owned a few futons, and whose ancestry is the root of the futon, let me make a few observations and suggestions. The futon was originally meant to be used on a a floor covered with tatami. Tatami is a thick, slightly resilient, rice mat. Tatami gives a little, and you could sleep just on tatami (I have). When you place a futon on tatami the result is a very comfortable bed. Most futon users in this country place the futon directly on the floor or on a platform-type bed. This is a little less comfortable than on tatami. Some futon manufacturers have compensated for this by placing foam in the futon. Some others just use more cotton, and make the futon a little thicker. One common mistake is to place the futon directly on the floor, or a platform bed and to just leave it there. Cotton is very absorbent, and since most people perspire when they sleep, lots of moisture goes into the futon. With the futon on the floor, the moisture gets trapped. The solution is to turn the futon often, or you can use the traditional Japanese method and roll the futon up when you aren't sleeping on it. The handling of the futon will allow some of the moisture to evaporate and you won't have problems with mildew and funny smells. Some beds make specially for futons use slats with space between the slats. This lets moisture escape out the bottom. You should also let it lie in the sun every once in a while (if you can do this) to let it really dry out. If you turn the futon and occasionally fluff it up, it should last many years. A queen size futon in the Boston area can be had for about $100. Not a bad deal. -- Marty Sasaki sasaki@harvard.{arpa,uucp} - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I bought a queen-sized futon from the local futon factory about 4 years ago. At that time it was $77.00. The price has gone up a bit, but according to the latest pricelist at the Northwest Futon Co. (or whatever), you can still get a king-sized one for less than $150.00 I'm all for supporting local businesses, so I'd suggest going to your local futon manufacturer. Look for high quality seams, and well-tied padding holders. These are just strings that go through the padding to keep it from shifting. My cats had a grand time pulling these out. Eventually you'll compress the padding enough so that it can't shift, but initially these strings are important. Also, be sure that the padding is at least 4 inches thick. It will crush down soon enough, and if you get a futon with any less padding, soon all you'll feel is the floor. Mine has crushed down in places to about 2 inches thick, but the edges are still about 3 1/2 to 4 inches thick. I eventually got tired of sleeping on the floor, so I got a waterbed pedestal with drawers and put the futon on top of that. At least I have somewhere to tie my shoes from now. After you get the thing, remember to flip it over every so often (I do it every other time I change the sheets). This is especially important if you keep it on the bare floor. Moisture from your body (bodies?) gets into the cotton padding, and the side closest to the floor doesn't get a chance to air out (eeeiuuu, yuch! The mattress is mildew-y!). I'm no longer comfortable on too soft beds. In fact, waterbeds drive me bananas. I'd rather sleep on a carpeted floor than on a waterbed. I've also discovered that I want two pillows when sleeping fetal position on a futon. This is because my shoulders no longer sink into the mattress, so I need my pillows to be higher to avoid twisting my neck. The old four-arm problem is a little worse, too, (you know -- where do you put the fourth arm?) because circulation is cut off much quicker to the limb that gets stuck underneath. However, I've found that the advantages of sleeping on a futon far outweigh the disadvantages, and my back likes me a whole lot better now than it did when I slept on a regular bed. -- Ariel Shattan ..!tektronix!orca!ariels - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The first question you've got to decide is what kind of futon? There are foam and cotton types. The foam ones fold up into three nice rectangular sections, are very light. I think double, queen, etc. sizes are available, or just push two singles together and it works fine. The cotton futon is more like the "real" Japanese futon. It's essentially a big cotton mattress that can roll up. The cotton types are much heavier, are available in all sizes including king. The two feel different, cotton is firmer. The foam futons are much easier to throw into a closet for guests. We've got a queen size cotton futon that we fold into a sort of couch when it's not being used. We bought it from a local outfit that made and sold them out of their basement. The queen was something like $95. It's a cotton cover with an unbleached cotton batting. It weighs something like 50lbs. A cotton futon really needs a cover. If you wear out the futon case itself, you'll have a mess. You can make covers pretty easily out of sheets - we use two flat full sheets for our queen futon. The foam futons don't need another cover. The one it's got will wear out eventually, but making a replacement isn't too tough for someone who can sew a straight line (my mother's done it about three times to the futons they bought about 15 years ago). -- Mike Rosenlof bmcg!asgb!mike - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Here in Santa Cruz, new futons sell better than new mattresses. There are about 6 futon stores in this city of 40,000 people. Two of them are: Warehouse Connection Yumeji Futon 545 Ocean View Ave. 317 Potrero St. Santa Cruz, CA 95060 Santa Cruz, CA 95060 (408) 425-1765 (408) 458-1100 Futons come in two distinct types: cotton and foam. Foam futons fold neatly, stay tidy, have attractive cloth covers, and are far more comfortable than a conventional hide-a-bed. However, I would recommend them only as hide-a-bed alternatives for your living-room. If you want to sleep on foam, you can buy a foam mattress for about 1/3 the price. Cotton futons are the real futons. My back never felt better, and I love being able to fold my futon into a ( slightly frumpy-looking ) couch. They are priced by size and the number of layers of cotton. Cotton futons compress with time, so even if a 4-layer futon feels okay in the store, you need 6-8 layers to stay comfortable for the long haul. Since futons placed on the floor transmit the cold of the floor up through your body, you should buy a wooden bed frame, at least before winter. One nifty system that Warehouse Connection sells ( address below ) is a component futon: you buy either packets of cotton padding ( 2 layers per packet ), or packets of foam, and a zipper cover that encases your set of packets. The advantage of this is that since futons have to be aired out every couple of months or so, you can simply unzip the cover and place the cotton packets on your clothesline. Otherwise, you have to drag a solid-cotton mattress futon to the windowsill and shake it for a while ( and it's quite heavy ). The disadvantage, of course, is that WC's component prices are about 30-40% higher than the straight cotton-mattress varieties available elsewhere. It may be worth it, though. Although my Yumeji Futon is very comfortable, maintenance is a pain. -- Amy mordor!amd!sco!amys - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I've been sleeping on a queen-size 6" futon for two years and would not go back to a bed. Purchased it at "Bon Marche" in NYC for $100. Don't even consider mail order - it weighs a half ton. Giving it a fluf every couple of weeks will get you in good shape. I've put it on a platform bed so the entire ensemble looks ordinary enough (not a floor job). I purchased a queen-size down comforter last spring (on sale for $45) and wouldn't go back to blankets again. My wife made a couple of duve's (sp) for the comforter and that's all we have over us in the winter (NJ -26 degrees last weekend!). -- Neal Nuckolls homxb!gdsd1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I know this info probably will not help you. The best and cheapest place to get futons is in Japan. For whatever reason the US does not charge duty on them, and you can get the top-of-the-line futons for less than $75 each, or the same quality you can get here for less than $40. If they accompany a passenger JAL is very reasonable about shipping them. -- "Chestbusters" ix21%sdcc6@SDCSVAX - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - You can sometimes find ads for futons in the back of mags like Metropolitan Home. Many are made by SLEEP EXQUISITE, 11727 Gateway Blvd 213.478.3800 (West LA) 415 Washington St. 213.822.7273 (Marina Del Rey) 7957 Melrose Ave 213.651.3334 (West Hlywd) 233 N Central 818.243.7657 (Glendale) 9420 Reseda Bl 818.701.0677 (Reseda) 4011 Orange Av 714.952.9353 (Cypress) 920 E Colorade Bl 818.449.2417 (Padadena) 12250 Ventura Bl 818.985.0500 (Studio City) 7154 Edinger 714.848.2334 Get a foam mat to put under the cotton futon. Minimum thickness (futon + foam) should be about 4" to be comfortable. They are available in California King, which should sleep 2 tall adults very comfortably. If you just get the foam mattress and futon, and not worry about the Japanese linens (i.e., comforter) it should run you about $200-$300. (Double/King/Queen). If you get the cotton mat, you can clean it easily just by sunning it. You can also use standard linens, although just a bottom sheet and a comforter are usually enough. Futons consist of: (Shikibuton) Cotton Mat, * (Kakebuton) Comforter, Folding Foam Mat *, Buckwheat Pillow Tatami Platform *'d items are things you should get. There are actually two types of platforms, one just a flat platform, one fancier that raises it more like a bed. We have the latter [but we have to keep tightening screws... they keep loosening... maybe due to our rocking the bed :-)] There is also another type of pillow that is 1/2 cotton and 1/2 buckwheat -- we have these and like them. -- Daniel P. Faigin ucla-cs!faigin - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - They work fairly well. Here in Portland we have to keep them off of the floor or things start growing on the down side. Futon stands are a good investment if you avoid the commercial ones. Futons here are $100 to $200 for those large enough for two adults. If you find much higher prices there let me know and I'll send you an address. The local place does ship but doesn't advertise. -- Paul Hyder { ...ihnp4!tektronix!tekecs!hyder } - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I bought such an animal in queen size at Target last year, for about $70. Doubt that they still carry them, some other local discounter might, though. Unfortunately, I don't have it any more, some foreign visitor walked off with it. He wanted it so much saying NO didn't work (-: -- Werner Uhrig (werner@ut-ngp.UUCP) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I bought mine five years ago from Northwest Futon, Portland, OR. It's the most comfortable bed I've ever slept on. It lays in an oak frame with 10x1 slats separated by 2" gaps to allow air circulation. Get at least the queen size. For the futon, frame, sheets, and mattress cover (cotton sack) I paid $300. Most of the cost was in the frame because I wanted a sharp looking bed. It's simple, elegant, and the oak looks wonderful. The bare futon is probably on the order of $80. My ladyfriends who sleep on their sides haven't liked it as much. It doesn't have a lot of "give" for hipbones - not a problem for thin guys like me. -- Paul Pomes uiucdcs!uiucuxc!paul - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I must first admit I don't know anything about futons or how to buy one, but I believe Handmade magazine had an article about a year ago on how to make one. I don't have a copy of the mag here with me at work, so can't get you any more details right now. But if this is an option you would consider I could send you info on how to back-order the issue. -- Laura Neff decwrl!flairvax!lneff - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - My wife (who lived in Japan for a year) and I have a queen-size futon that we bought many years ago, and have found to be very comfortable. It was particularly convenient when we were living in Deep Eddy (the army barracks turned into married student housing, but now torn down) where room was not plentiful. That's the good news. Unfortunately, the futon does not have a manufacturer's label, and I really don't remember where we got it, other than we ordered it through the mails from a maker in New England. But I do have some suggestions that might prove fruitful: 1. Check with Natural Comfort Bedding; they are here in Austin. They are not cheap, but they are top quality, and unlike mail order, you can examine what they have before you buy it. 2. Alaya Stitchery has made zabutons (pluralized Japanese words do look a bit strange), zafus, and futons for the San Francisco Zen Center for years. Their address is: Alaya Stitchery 848 Cole Street San Francisco, CA 94117 3. If you feel industrious, you can order a do-it-yourself pattern from: Poppy Fabric 2072 Addison Street Berkeley, CA 94704 4. There are generally two types of futon: 1) a light weight, folding bed made of hinged, cloth-covered foam sections, and 2) a heavier mattress made of cotton batting. The former is more easily moved and stored out of the way, but the latter (for me at least) offers more comfort. -- Brad Benton ut-sally!cyb-eng!esc-bb!brad - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - We ordered a queen-size and a crib-size, custom-made from two women in a distant suburb of Buffalo. No problems. Apparently, nothing can go wrong with a well-made futon. There's probably no reason to buy a name-brand futon. -- George Sicherman sunybcs!colonel - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -