[net.consumers] Hostile faddists

oaf@mit-vax.UUCP (Oded Feingold) (08/17/85)

>    	Surely  you  jest.   Even  you   must   admit   that   NCI's
 >   	facts/opinions are biased.  If they solved cancer they would
  >  	lose their funding.  Even with this ASSIDE if they found out
   > 	that the natural way worked would they admit it?
    >						[Tom Stanions]
Let me be a 6th-grade spelling  teacher:
Correct spelling:				aside
Tom Stanions' spelling:				asside
But the whole paragraph is ridiculous:
Tom Stanions would spell that:			hole
Insert the hole into asside:			assholeide
And the s because he is one:			assholeside.
VOILA!  (C'est magnificque, mais c'est ne pas la recursion.)
I know - belongs on net.flame.  Couldn't resist.  So sue me.

    	 IF THEY SOLVED CANCER THEY WOULD LOSE THEIR FUNDING
    Mr.   Stanions, do you really believe that NCI wants to perpetuate
cancer?  Your statement is tantamount to that.   Aren't  you  insulted
they don't sue you for libel?

   BTW,  I posted a series of short and simple questions as to whether
you know anything about sugar.  When your reply came back  I  was  too
flabbergasted to respond, but I've collected myself.
    A man who gives ten answers to a simple question, none having  any
bearing  on  the question, is not the kind of guy to whom I'd trust my
life...
-- 

Oded Feingold     MIT AI Lab.   545 Tech Square    Cambridge, Mass. 02139
OAF%OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA   {harvard, ihnp4!mit-eddie}!mitvax!oaf   617-253-8598

wws@ukma.UUCP (Bill Stoll) (08/21/85)

Oded Feingold wrote a response to Ton Stanions (net.med#973), that so
well represented the too common response I have seen to people trying
to share the greatest advance in the history of health care (Holistic
Medicine), that I just had to comment.

First of all, by using "Occam's Razor", as well as common sense, we
are all required to at least consider the simplest reason that
explains all the facts until a better explanation comes along.  This
has nothing to do with: a) Does it agree with my idea of the way I
think the world SHOULD be, or, b) It is too scary to be true.  As soon
as I hear a better, or simpler, explanation for the observed behavior
of the National Cancer Organizations, I will continue to agree with
Tom Stanions.  That is quite a statement for an MD who used to do
spots on the media for the Cancer Society fund raisers.

As I have grown in knowledge and understanding of how "the system"
works, I have become less and less confused about why these
organizations do some of the things they do.  If I needed any more
convincing, my doubts would have been laid to rest last year when the
National Cancer Society had to be forced by the courts, through a suit
by several consumer advocacy groups, to release the information they
had blocked (for the past ten years) regarding the relationship
between diet and cancer.  Nutritional biochemists, epidemiologists,
researchers in Holistic medicine, Medical Anthropologists, even the
report of the Senate Subcommittee released in 1975, all stated the
obvious many, many times at least that long ago.  What harm would
there have been to simply inform the public and let us make our own
judgement?

The same mechanism seems to be in operation in Great Britain:  This
year a major scandal broke in England, unearthed by an investigative
reporter, that revealed the same information had been reported there
about ten years ago and had been promptly buried in the government
archives.  The suspicion, presently being investigated, is that too
many special interests would be hurt if people seriously began to
change their eating habits.  We'll soon see.  The BBC has a reputation
for getting at the truth.

I would be interested in knowing how long Tom Stanions has been
"casting pearls--" while intelligent people have been laughing instead
of listening.

The same mechanism exists in the "Disease Insurance Industry".  They
make money on the basis of how much they pay out.  They simply
increase their premiums based on their expenditures.  There is no
incentive for medical insurance companies to try to reduce medical
costs.  Current statistics indicate that the Holistic Medical Model
would reduce the medical expenses in this country by at least 50%.
What would happen to any insurance company that had to cut their
premiums by 50%?  Their staff would have to be cut.  Their buildings
would have to be reduced.  Their influence would be lessened.  There
has been a concerted campaign, especially by Blue Cross (half owned
by MDs), to block ANYTHING that had to do with health promotion or
prevention.  The most conservative estimate says that each dollar
spent for prevention saves nine dollars in medical expenses.  At least
HMOs are finally filling in the gap where the special interests of
companies like Blue Cross have failed.  You see, HMOs make more money
the healthier you are.  The regular system makes more money the sicker
you are.  Which system do you trust?

cbosgd!ukma!wws

-- 
Walt Stoll, MD, ABFP
Founder, & Medical Director
Holistic Medical Centre
1412 N. Broadway
Lexington, Kentucky  40505

kmk@hlwpc.UUCP (Ken Keyzer) (08/22/85)

> Oded Feingold wrote a response to Ton Stanions (net.med#973), that so
> well represented the too common response I have seen to people trying
> to share the greatest advance in the history of health care (Holistic
> Medicine), that I just had to comment.
> [...]
> 
> The same mechanism exists in the "Disease Insurance Industry".  They
> make money on the basis of how much they pay out.  They simply
> increase their premiums based on their expenditures.  There is no
> incentive for medical insurance companies to try to reduce medical
> costs.  Current statistics indicate that the Holistic Medical Model
> would reduce the medical expenses in this country by at least 50%.
> What would happen to any insurance company that had to cut their
> premiums by 50%?  Their staff would have to be cut.  Their buildings
> would have to be reduced.  Their influence would be lessened.  There

No problem!  The insurance companies can sell "bad vibes" insurance.
-- 
						Ken Keyzer
						AT&T Bell Laboratories
						ihnp4!hlwpc!kmk