miller@uiucdcs.UUCP (miller ) (03/19/84)
#N:uiucdcs:10600148:000:3921
uiucdcs!miller Mar 19 00:38:00 1984
In discussions with people on the net concerning the Paluxy River tracks,
I've heard all sorts of excuses as to what they may be besides human. Some say
they are carvings (hoax or erosion), others say they were made by little green
men from Ork. I've demonstrated how things like lamination lines rule out the
first possibility; I am amused at the lengths evolutionists must go to when
they suggest the second.
The newest charge comes along the lines: well, there are no other examples
of out-of-order fossils anywhere else, so we can just do some hand waving and
conclude that they *must* be non-human. Now I think that the Paluxy site
should stand or fall on its own merits. Nevertheless, I've already given one
other instance of human presence early in the fossil sequence, and I thought
I'd pass along a list I ran across the other day to give some more examples.
Of the items on this list, about half have appeared in "standard"
journals, while the remainder of the fossil remains have been ignored (or,
perhaps censored?) and are only documented in creationist journals. While
looking over this list, keep in mind: 1) it only deals with fossil evidence,
2) it only concerns man (and not other types of out-of-order or polystrata
fossils), and 3) it is not complete. Even with such limitations, I think it
will illustrate some of the many problems behind the evolution model not yet
mentioned. And one final thing, lest I be accused of only telling half of the
story. Some of the things in this list, like Mary Leakey's footprints in
Laetolil, are credited to other primates. However, in light of all of the evi-
dence (this plus much much more I haven't even mentioned yet) I see no reason
to believe that Australopithecus, rather than man, left that behind. At any
rate, the *worst* that can be said is that it is consistent with the creation
model.
Questions/requests for further info are welcome. I'll answer as many as I
have time for subject to the restriction that I have differing amounts of
knowledge about different items on the list. The list as it was given to me
contains about 75 references of which I have read some, but not all. The order
below is from bottom to top:
STRATA HUMAN ARTIFACT LOCATION
Cambrian iron bands Lochmaree, Scotland
Ordovician sandal print Lake Windermere, England
metal hammer London, Texas
Silurian skeleton Franklin County, Missouri
Pennsylvanian footprints Bera, Kentucky
iron pot Oklahoma
various tools Aixen-Provence, France
gold chain Illinois
Permian footprints St. Louis, Missouri
Triassic sandal print Pershing County, Nevada
footprint Mt. Victoria, Australia
Jurassic leg and foot bones Spring Valley, Nevada
footprint Parkersburg, W. Virginia
Cretaceous two skeletons La Sal, Utah
skull Gilman, Colorado
footprints Glen Rose, Texas
foot and shoe prints Carrizo Valley, Oklahoma
cast metal nodules Saint-Jean de Livet, France
Paleocene cast iron cube Wolfsegg, Austria
Eocene skull Germany
tooth Bear Creek, Montana
Miocene skull Stanford, California
jaw Tuscany, Italy
shoe print Gobi Desert, Asia
Pliocene skull Calaveras, California
skull Castenedolo, Italy
skull Table Mt., California
jaw Foxhall, England
footprints Laetolil, Africa
footprints Tulsa, Oklahoma
sandal prints Carson City, Nevada
Lower Pleistocene pelvis Natchez
jaw Abbeville, France
upper arm bone Kanapoi, Africa
Middle Pleistocene skull Olmo, Italy
skeleton Clichy, France
skeleton Gally Hill, England
Well, this is getting pretty long, so I guess this will have to do for
now. Next week: a behind the scenes look at the Arkansas Balanced Treatment
Act trial and how it differs from Louisiana.
A. Ray Miller
Univ Illinoismiller@uiucdcs.UUCP (miller ) (03/20/84)
#R:uiucdcs:10600148:uiucdcs:10600149:000:221 uiucdcs!miller Mar 19 14:31:00 1984 I will put off my planned discussion of the Arkansas Balanced Treatment Act trial for two weeks so that next week I can respond to some points raised by Bryon et. al. on the Glen Rose tracks. A. Ray Miller Univ Illinois
flinn@seismo.UUCP (E. A. Flinn) (03/20/84)
------ I would be interested to see publication references for the following claims of pre-Tertiary human remains tabulated by Miller: STRATA "HUMAN(?)" ARTIFACT LOCATION Silurian skeleton Franklin County, Missouri Jurassic leg and foot bones Spring Valley, Nevada Cretaceous two skeletons La Sal, Utah skull Gilman, Colorado
rcd@opus.UUCP (03/27/84)
With trepidation, I toss in my 2 cents worth (or less) on this. Miller has
given a small list of allegedly out-of-order fossils showing evidence of
human presence at the "wrong" time for evolution - i.e., allegedly
indicating the presence of humans too early to be consistent with the
evolution model. The fallacy should be obvious: How long is the list of
fossils which ARE consistent with predictions of evolution theory? Well, a
good clue is that it's not something that you're going to be able to post
to net.misc! The preponderance of evidence still supports evolution
theory. That there are anomalies in the evidence simply demonstrates that
we don't understand everything - small surprise when you're trying to
reconstruct a story of global proportions from evidence millions of years
old...
[Brief interlude. If you are religious, contemplate the marvelous wonder
of the complexity of the universe. Give your God a little credit for not
making something so simple that you can understand it all without taxing
your marvelous brain that God also supposedly gave you. EOF]
On the other hand, the proponderance of evidence still provides no support
for creationism...
One thing I have missed by tuning in late on this discussion - are "little
green men from Ork" or whatever a euphemism for God?
--
{hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd