jeff@heurikon.UUCP (02/09/84)
Did you know that they weigh jumbo jets from time to time?
Over the years they notice that the weight of an empty
plane slowly increases. In ten years, a 747 can "gain"
over 2,000 pounds. This was a big mystery until they
discovered that the extra weight was from the residue
left on all the airplane's surfaces from cigarette smoke!
Think about the surface area of all the panels, subpanels,
etc. It all adds up. And that stuff costs the airline
(correction: it costs *us*) about $55,000 per year in
extra fuel.
--
/"""\ Jeffrey Mattox, Heurikon Corp, Madison, WI
|O.O| {harpo, hao, philabs}!seismo!uwvax!heurikon!jeff (news & mail)
\_=_/ ihnp4!heurikon!jeff (mail - fast)wetcw@pyuxa.UUCP (T C Wheeler) (02/10/84)
Come-on, residue from smoke? Gimme a break. 2000 pounds? How about all that dirt ground into the carpet? The body sweat ground into the seats? The weight of the added modifications to the equipment such as radios, hydralics, etc.? Just plain dirt stuck to the skin of the plane? 2000 pounds? This sounds like a propaganda ploy from GASP. Be serious, 2000 pounds? You've been hosed.
david@randvax.ARPA (David Shlapak) (02/13/84)
Jesus, you certainly sound certain for someone who can't possibly
be. Or are you in the airline biz???
In other words, 'Oh come on' yourself...
Cheers.
--- dasrenner@uiucdcs.UUCP (renner ) (02/15/84)
#R:heurikon:-20200:uiucdcs:10600140:000:352
uiucdcs!renner Feb 14 22:04:00 1984
I have a hard time believing that an airplane can accumulate 2000 pounds of
cigarette smoke. And since there are so many convincing reasons to ban
smoking on airplanes, there is no reason to include this "fact" in
anti-smoking propaganda. On the other hand, if you have a good source,
I'd like to see it.
Scott Renner
{ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!rennerseifert@ihuxl.UUCP (D.A. Seifert) (02/15/84)
If Mr. Wheeler doesn't believe that cigarette smoke could add
2000 pounds to a 747, I suggest he be assigned to clean the interior
of an old 747. There's a *lot* of surface area in there! And
smoke is just *so* enjoyable to clean off.
Anyone who attempts to smoke in my car will
get to try out my new ejection seat.
--
_____
/_____\ "Happiness is a warm puppy"
/_______\ Snoopy
|___|
____|___|_____ ihnp4!ihuxl!seifertbillp@azure.UUCP (02/16/84)
>> If Mr. Wheeler doesn't believe that cigarette smoke could add >> 2000 pounds to a 747, I suggest he be assigned to clean the interior >> of an old 747. There's a *lot* of surface area in there! And >> smoke is just *so* enjoyable to clean off. I don't know about smoke accumulation in planes, but I have worked on enough TV's to see the effect there. Anything carrying high voltage will attract junk out of the air. Especially the high voltage rectifier tube in old sets is coated with dirt. In homes where nobody smokes, this coating is usually just fine dust, which can easily be blown off. When people smoke, there is usually a thick, sticky coat of tar covering the tube. Once we picked up a set for repair from a tavern. The tar that had condensed on the tube had run off, soaked a good portion of the chassis, and formed a puddle underneath the TV. Bill Pfeifer {cbosgd,decvax,harpo,ihnss,ogcvax,pur-ee,ucbvax,zehntel} !tektronix!tekmdp!billp
hutch@shark.UUCP (02/16/84)
Anyone know how much PAINT weighs? Smoke sticking to all the accessible surfaces of the plane, over time, begins to approximate another coat of paint. If you don't believe this then just go to any dorm room, bathroom, restaurant, or other place where smoking is a popular pastime. Look at the ceiling and see how much smoke has accumulated. They usually wash these places down fairly thoroughly about once every year or two. Smoke gets in your eyes, Hutch
wetcw@pyuxa.UUCP (T C Wheeler) (02/16/84)
Well, I still don't think that the extra 2000 pounds can be attributed to smoke. Aviation fuel leaves a residue on the insides of parts, hydralic liquids leave residues, dirt is ground into everything inside the plane, and accumulations of grease build up everywhere. I could perhaps grant you 500 pounds, but not 2000. BTW, I don't smoke around non-smokers. It ain't nice. Come March, when the new gum is available, I hope to become a non-smoker. Please, no flames, I'm weak on smoking and don't take suggestions on how to stop easily. T. C. Wheeler
rjk@mgweed.UUCP (Randy King) (02/18/84)
I'm not sure whether I believe 2Klbs or not, but perhaps someone could expound on the weight of the various crap that comes out of those scummy weeds. How about when IBM/360 disks would consistently crash when exposed to cigarette smoke particles? As far as airplane weight, it is monitored very carefully. On smaller craft, it may not be the size of your checkbook that limits the purchase of new avionics, but where it would put you in the loading envelope. D. A. is right, though. There is one helluva lot of surface area in those 747's. Not to mention the fact that cloth probably holds 10-20 times the weight as does vinyl and other non-porous surfaces. I sometimes think that I'm gaining weight just from breathing that scummy crap all day long. Randy King
rjk@mgweed.UUCP (Randy King) (02/18/84)
>> Jesus, you certainly sound certain for someone who can't possibly >> be. Or are you in the airline biz??? >> >> In other words, 'Oh come on' yourself... Is *he* on this net, too? Anyone have his path? Also, look at your statement. If *he* isn't certain about something, I'm getting off. Randy King
esac@ihuxp.UUCP (Bill Adams) (02/18/84)
I would venture to guess that you could drop every cigarette ever
smoked in said same 747 into the cargo hold and it still wouldn't
add 2000 pounds of weight to the aircraft.
I agree smoking coats interior vehicle surfaces but 2000 pounds of
added weight is hard to swallow.
Smoking is permitted in my car............and plane.
Peace
--
Bill Adams ==> AT&T Communications <==
ihnp4!ihuxp!esac
(312) 979-6267jeff@heurikon.UUCP (02/19/84)
> I would venture to guess that you could drop every cigarette ever > smoked in said same 747 into the cargo hold and it still wouldn't > add 2000 pounds of weight to the aircraft. > > I agree smoking coats interior vehicle surfaces but 2000 pounds of > added weight is hard to swallow. (Your choice of the word "swallow" certainly is appropriate!) Pretend you've been hired by Boeing to paint the inside of a 747. Think about how much surface area there is in a 747. Think about how many gallons of paint it would take to cover that surface area . Don't forget to do both sides of all interior surfaces plus the inside surface of the skin. You can paint as thinly as you like, but paint *everything*, even the reading lamps. Think about how much a gallon of paint weighs. And, oh yes, you have to carry the paint yourself. I guess you've never painted a house? Lugging the paint from your car to the ladder will convince you that 200 pounds/year isn't unreasonable. > Smoking is permitted in my car............and plane. You're really not doing anybody any favors there. I assume you're a smoker. I bet your car stinks, and the plane, too. Your house surely smells. But you wouldn't notice because you're used to it. Your friends do, I bet, but keep silent. I do not mean this to sound like a personal attack. It isn't. The fact is, people who smoke *smell* as do their offices, homes and cars. Too bad they don't know it. -- /"""\ Jeffrey Mattox, Heurikon Corp, Madison, WI |O.O| {harpo, hao, philabs}!seismo!uwvax!heurikon!jeff (news & mail) \_=_/ ihnp4!heurikon!jeff (mail - fast)
guy@rlgvax.UUCP (Guy Harris) (02/19/84)
> I'm not sure whether I believe 2Klbs or not, but perhaps someone could expound > on the weight of the various crap that comes out of those scummy weeds. How > about when IBM/360 disks would consistently crash when exposed to cigarette > smoke particles? That's not a function of the weight of the smoke, but of the fact that, relative to the distance between the heads and the surface, a smoke particle looks like a hefty-sized boulder. Those days aren't gone; people *still* shouldn't smoke in computer rooms because the smoke particles can *still* screw your disk. (They shouldn't smoke in a lot of other places, too, because they can screw your lungs - and your day, if you're sufficiently sensitive.) Guy Harris {seismo,ihnp4,allegra}!rlgvax!guy
res@ihuxn.UUCP (Rich Strebendt) (02/20/84)
With respect to the weight of the paint job on a jumbo jet: A short while ago (within ~6 months) I recall seeing a brief article that said that the paint job on a 747 weighs (after drying) either 7000 lbs, or 7 tons ... I have forgotten which. (Only a factor of two, either way!) Judging from my last flight on a commercial air liner, just the smoke in the air during that flight must have weighed an appreciable fraction of a ton! Had to send the clothes I was wearing to the dry cleaners to get rid of the stink before I could wear them again. I have no difficulty believing that an airliner could accumulate a ton of that crud over a period of years. Rich Strebendt ...!ihnp4!ihuxn!res
keithl@vice.UUCP (Keith Lofstrom) (02/20/84)
It's odd that with all these computers around nobody even tries to base
their estimates on calculation ...
Here is the lung dose of the smokers on a 747.
50 smoking passengers ( A 747 seats 360-490 )
x 2 cigarettes/hr ( two-pack-a-day smokers )
( check: that's 100 per hour - at 5 minutes / smoke
that's 8 smokers lit up, average. I've seen more
than that on a 737, with 1/4 the passengers )
x 15 mg tar/cigarette ( typical filtered cigarette - lung dose only )
x 12 hrs per day
x 300 days per year ( an airline that doesn't use it's planes much )
_______ ( the envelope, please )
13.5 kg/yr = 30 lbs/yr
Now, that's what makes it through a filter into the lungs. The other end isn't
filtered, and generates the bulk of the emissions. 200 pounds per year isn't
THAT unlikely. ( a similar calculation for the butts at 1 gm each yields
800 pounds per year; I doubt ihuxp!esac could even lift his own 10 year
accumulation of cigarette butts )
Where does it go? Airliners are made with a pressurized aluminum hull,
INSULATION, and thin plastic panelling. If the main cabin is 50 meters long
and 6 meters across, just the inaccessable flat surfaces alone are 2000 square
meters. If tar has a specific density of 3, a 900 kg (one ton) deposit would
leave a surface coating 150 microns thick on the flat surfaces. Now, how
about the surface area of all that insulation? And the ducts? And the
cabling? A coating too thin to see could do that. If cigarette tar is
hygrosopic, even a smaller amount of tar could absorb water and account for
that weight change.
Ah, well, I should be thankful that all those drug abusers (and nicotine
IS a drug) aren't using heroin instead. The weight of all the broken
hypodermic needles in the cracks in the floor would surely be much worse :-)
From the fiendish (and calculating) skies of:
--
Keith Lofstrom
uucp: {ucbvax,decvax,chico,pur-ee,cbosg,ihnss}!teklabs!vice!keithl
CSnet: keithl@tek
ARPAnet:keithl.tek@rand-relayignatz@ihuxx.UUCP (Dave Ihnat, Chicago, IL) (03/28/84)
In relation to smoke and disks (My, how net conversations branch): In 1977, a Large Company for which I worked (name withheld at request of my lawyer--why take chances?) purchase a Pr1me 300 and turned two of its employees loose, designing an on-line order entry and monitoring system. After the thing was 90% up, and after months of trouble-free operation, we started having regular and severe disk crashes. Now, the CDC storage modules we were using were supposed to be pretty solid, and had been...what was going on? After a LOT of lost platters and expensive service calls, Tom and I happened to come in *very* early one day to work on the problem--and saw an amazing sight through the glass door of the computer room. The third-shift operator, leaning back in his chair with about two inches of thick, green cigar...blowing smoke into the base of the disk drive cabinet. ARRRGGGGHHHH! It seems this person was an in-company trainee who'd known nothing about computers before. He'd assumed he couldn't smoke in the computer room because the smoke would hurt the computer, and figured that he'd solved his problem by blowing it where it was obviously getting sucked away, where it couldn't hurt anything. Do I need to describe what the drive filters were like? It's a lot funnier to me 7 years later than it was then, for some reason... Dave Ihnat ihuxx!ignatz