maureen@scirtp.UUCP (Maureen Chew) (10/10/85)
I often get calls between 7:30-8:30 in the evening from people
trying to sell something. They try to sell everything from
funeral plots to light bulbs. I find that these interruptions
are very irritating and annoying. Even before the new
phone books came out and my name was not listed, I was
receiving these kinds of calls.
Does anyone know how one gets on these lists, or possibly how
to get off them short of having an unlisted number?
Maureen Chew
SCI Systems
{akgua, decvax}!mcnc!rti-sel!scirtp!maureenhpk@vax135.UUCP (Howard Katseff) (10/12/85)
Back in 1984, this was posted to usenet... April 24, 1984 The Austin American Statesman (they deserve credit) CALL KEEPS SOLICITORS OUT A call to 1-800-251-6320 will get your name removed from telephone sales and soliciting lists of all members of the Direct Marketing Association. You get "Customer Service" of "Allan Mills Photography" on the phone, as those folks seem to have contracted to provide this service for DMA. They take your name, number, and address, but I forgot to ask if that will also take you off junk-mailing-lists, a reasonable assumption as you can write to DMA to request this. I called and it really worked, I get lots fewer calls now. Howard Katseff AT&T Bell Laboratories Holmdel, NJ
levy@ttrdc.UUCP (Daniel R. Levy) (10/13/85)
In article <488@scirtp.UUCP>, maureen@scirtp.UUCP (Maureen Chew) writes: >I often get calls between 7:30-8:30 in the evening from people >trying to sell something. They try to sell everything from >funeral plots to light bulbs. I find that these interruptions >are very irritating and annoying. Even before the new >phone books came out and my name was not listed, I was >receiving these kinds of calls. >Does anyone know how one gets on these lists, or possibly how >to get off them short of having an unlisted number? >Maureen Chew >SCI Systems >{akgua, decvax}!mcnc!rti-sel!scirtp!maureen Maybe they weren't calling from a list, but just dialing in sequence within certain area exchange prefixes known to be residential. You didn't say if they knew your name, or just asked for the man or lady of the house, or what. I have gotten such calls at the office when working late into the evening, taped spiels which start up when the machine on the other end detects a voice. Your best weapon against this is "sorry, good-bye" (if it was a person), and hanging up the phone as soon as you know what it is; and there are phone attachments available (such as at AT&T Phone Centers) that you can use to make your phone seem like it is off the hook when you don't want to be bothered. Or if you're itchy about getting important calls anyway, get a telephone (of course I recommend AT&T phones) that is near where you are in the evening so at least you don't have to run to catch it. Have you ever tried asking the caller how they got hold of your number? If I was as steamed as you sound over it, I would. I have heard of a place you can write to ask that you be taken off of junk mailing lists, but never anything concerning junk phoning. Maybe your local phone company division can give suggestions short of going to an unlisted number (which would not do much good anyhow against sequential dialing). -- ------------------------------- Disclaimer: The views contained herein are | dan levy | yvel nad | my own and are not at all those of my em- | an engihacker @ | ployer or the administrator of any computer | at&t computer systems division | upon which I may hack. | skokie, illinois | -------------------------------- Path: ..!ihnp4!ttrdc!levy
dave@cylixd.UUCP (Dave Kirby) (10/14/85)
In article <488@scirtp.UUCP> maureen@scirtp.UUCP (Maureen Chew) writes: >I often get calls between 7:30-8:30 in the evening from people >trying to sell something. >Does anyone know how one gets on these lists, or possibly how >to get off them short of having an unlisted number? One effective method is to invest in an answering machine. No salesman is going to waste time with an answering machine. The nice thing about these is that you can turn the volume up on some of them and listen to the caller as he gives his message, and pick up the phone and begin talking if he is someone you want to talk to. It's a great call-screening apparatus. A particularly insidious kind of sales call now appearing in several cities is one which is initiated by computer, and contains recorded questions by some mellifluous voice that requires answers in simple digits or "yes" and "no". A voice recognition circuit then processes your answers and asks further questions based on your former answers. The sales pitch is usually disguised as a survey of some kind. The despicable thing about these things is that they won't leave you alone. If you hang up, they will just call back again. One day my wife got a call from one of these computer systems, and her answering machine answered. The conversation that followed was hilarious, as it consisted of two machines talking to each other without having the slightest idea about what each other was saying. The conversation wound up in an endless loop, as follows: [PHONE] *RING* [ANSWERING MACHINE] "...At the tone, please give your message. BEEEEEP." [PHONE] "Hello. This is [company_name], and we are taking a telephone survey ... when I ask a question, wait for the beep, then please speak plainly. I will repeat your answer back to you, and verify it. First, what is your phone number? BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." (The answering machine, upon hearing the beep, got confused and thought it was a play-back command, and generated another beep in response.) [ANSWERING MACHINE] "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." [PHONE] "Thank you! Your phone number was 443-28347-47756-377764-22222. Is that correct? BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." [ANSWERING MACHINE] "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." [PHONE] "Thank you! Do you have any children? BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." [ANSWERING MACHINE] "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." [PHONE] Thank you! What is the age of your first child? BEEEEEEEEEEP." [ANSWERING MACHINE] "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." [PHONE] "Your first child is 1,222 years old. Is that correct? BEEEEEP." [ANSWERING MACHINE] "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." [--------------- BEGIN ENDLESS LOOP ----------------] [PHONE] "Thank you! Do you have any more children? BEEEEEEP." [ANSWERING MACHINE] "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." [PHONE] "Thank you! What is this child's age? BEEEP." [ANSWERING MACHINE] "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." [PHONE] "This child is 4,233 years old. Is that correct? BEEEEP." [ANSWERING MACHINE] "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP." [---------------------END LOOP -----------------------] My wife, upon noticing that the answering machine had been going for over half an hour, turned up the volume to find out what was going on. When she discovered this endless loop (by now she had over 200 children, all over 1,000 years old), she switched off the answering machine. The computer never called again. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Kirby ( ...!ihnp4!akgub!cylixd!dave) (The views expressed herein are the exclusive property of Dave Kirby. Any person, living or dead, found with the same or similar opinions will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of law.)
mcb@styx.UUCP (Michael C. Berch) (10/15/85)
In article <488@scirtp.UUCP> maureen@scirtp.UUCP (Maureen Chew) writes: > I often get calls between 7:30-8:30 in the evening from people > trying to sell something. They try to sell everything from > funeral plots to light bulbs. I find that these interruptions > are very irritating and annoying. Even before the new > phone books came out and my name was not listed, I was > receiving these kinds of calls. > Does anyone know how one gets on these lists, or possibly how > to get off them short of having an unlisted number? Unfortunately, many of these solicitors are not working from mailing lists, but are just given a prefix or set of prefixes, and call every number consecutively, returning to those numbers that are busy or don't answer. Some of these people are working at home using local flat-rate residential phone lines. (Presumably this is a violation of a phone tariff; complaints to your phone company could conceivably get results.) If they aren't working from home but are in "boiler-room" locations, there isn't much that you can do, except try to get the name/home phone number of a principal in the firm. Then call THEM at 7:00 in the morning to complain. (I've done this a couple of times.) Michael C. Berch mcb@lll-tis-b.ARPA {akgua,allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,dual,ihnp4,sun}!idi!styx!mcb
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (10/15/85)
> I often get calls between 7:30-8:30 in the evening from people > trying to sell something. They try to sell everything from > funeral plots to light bulbs. I find that these interruptions > are very irritating and annoying. Even before the new > phone books came out and my name was not listed, I was > receiving these kinds of calls. > Does anyone know how one gets on these lists, or possibly how > to get off them short of having an unlisted number? > Maureen Chew > SCI Systems > {akgua, decvax}!mcnc!rti-sel!scirtp!maureen Until you do get off the lists (If you can. Some companies make a living by selling these lists) do what I do. If somebody calls me and mispronounces my name I politely say he/she has the wrong number. If they dont know my name they dont know me. If they get pass that hurdle the first thing I say is "I rent". That gets rid of a lot fast.
lws@hou2d.UUCP (lwsamocha) (10/15/85)
>I often get calls between 7:30-8:30 in the evening from people >trying to sell something. They try to sell everything from >funeral plots to light bulbs. >Does anyone know how one gets on these lists, or possibly how >to get off them short of having an unlisted number? Unlike many people, I enjoy receiving these calls! I will listen, quietly and attentively- even murmuring "Yeah, Oh, really?" or "How interesting!". Then I will say something like- "Why this is really something I can understand (or need or whatever, Excuse me, I'd like to write some of this down." Then I put down the receiver. After fifteen minutes, they're gone. After aggravating a couple of salesmen, your name is tagged on lists as a trouble-maker and the calls will drop off. You'll derive much self-satisfaction too! LWS hou2d!lws
copp@petrus.UUCP (10/16/85)
Agreed--one easy way to punish the junk phone caller (human or machine) is to waste his/her/its time. Say "can you hold on a minute?", put the phone down, and don't come back until you hear funny tones.
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (10/17/85)
> >I often get calls between 7:30-8:30 in the evening from people > >trying to sell something. They try to sell everything from > >funeral plots to light bulbs. > > Unlike many people, I enjoy receiving these calls! > > Then I put down the receiver. > After fifteen minutes, they're gone. > I hope to hell that you don't get an emergency medical phone call while you're playing games with the phone. The phone is a piece of equipment which I am paying for. I want to select whomever is using it. With the phone laying idlely on a table, it is out of my control until I -repeat- I HANG IT UP.
45223wc@mtuxo.UUCP (w.cambre) (10/17/85)
I usually sit there quietly while they go through their whole summary of why their product will save all humanity, then simply say 'Nope, I don't want it, goodbye!' and hang up. You know these people are talking over the phone all night and their voices have to start hurting after a while. Waste their time AND make them talk, now that's punishment.
terryl@tekcrl.UUCP () (10/18/85)
> > I often get calls between 7:30-8:30 in the evening from people > > trying to sell something. They try to sell everything from > > ......... > > Until you do get off the lists (If you can. Some companies make a living > by selling these lists) do what I do. If somebody calls me and mispronounces > my name I politely say he/she has the wrong number. If they dont know my name > they dont know me. That's a good one. Also, if someone calls and asks for "Mrs. So-and-so" or the lady of the house(I'm single), I tell them they have the wrong number. Another trick I use is to say "Gee, I'm just going out. Could you call back???" Almost always they say yes and hang up the phone!!!!
ran@ho95e.UUCP (RANeinast) (10/18/85)
> > Does anyone know how one gets on these lists, or possibly how > > to get off them short of having an unlisted number? > > Unfortunately, many of these solicitors are not working from mailing > lists, but are just given a prefix or set of prefixes, and call every > number consecutively, returning to those numbers that are busy or > don't answer. > > Michael C. Berch Actually, the local phone companies sell directories with the numbers arranged by STREET ADDRESS. I can always tell when the solicitors are using those, because my wife and I have separate listings (different last names). We then get two of these idiotic calls, one right after the other. The solicitors are too stupid to notice that they've just dialed the same number twice (either that, or they are using automatic dialers, but I doubt it). I now let the second call ring. -- ". . . and shun the frumious Bandersnatch." Robert Neinast (ihnp4!ho95b!ran) AT&T-Bell Labs
mcal@ihuxb.UUCP (Mike Clifford) (10/18/85)
> > I usually sit there quietly while they go through their whole > summary of why their product will save all humanity, then simply > say 'Nope, I don't want it, goodbye!' and hang up. You know these > people are talking over the phone all night and their voices have > to start hurting after a while. Waste their time AND make them talk, > now that's punishment. I feel the best way to handle these calls is to either 1) get an answering machine, or 2) tell them right away that you're not interested. Remember you are "wasting" YOUR time as well as theirs when you wait for them to finish their "talk" and then tell them you're not interested. The other thing to keep in mind is that they are people, too, and are probably in alot worse situation then you if they are working that sort of a job and putting up with all flavors of jerks. Just tell them you're not interested right at the top and hang up. Mike Clifford
thomas@utah-gr.UUCP (Spencer W. Thomas) (10/18/85)
There is a place you can write to get off the "phone lists". This will
help with some of the calls, anyway. I don't have the information here,
unfortunately.
I can almost always tell the "junk calls". My wife kept her maiden
name, so when I answer the phone, and the caller says "Mr. Gibson?",
it's usually a junk call. Sometimes we get a "Gibson" call, and then a
"Thomas" call almost immediately afterwards. They must have some sort
of list sorted by phone number (with name as a subkey).
--
=Spencer ({ihnp4,decvax}!utah-cs!thomas, thomas@utah-cs.ARPA)
"When wrath runs rampage in your heart you must hold still
that rambunctions tongue!" - Sapphombr@aoa.UUCP (Mark Rosenthal) (10/19/85)
In article <370@cylixd.UUCP> dave@cylixd.UUCP (Dave Kirby) writes: >A particularly insidious kind of sales call now appearing in several >cities is one which is initiated by computer, and contains recorded >questions by some mellifluous voice that requires answers in simple >digits or "yes" and "no". These machines are especially obnoxious since they refuse to release your phone line until they are done with you. Does anybody know who manufactures these devices, or how to find out the names and phone numbers of the principals in these companies? I'm sure they'd be interested in hearing our complaints. :-) Seriously though, I'd like to know what regulatory agencies determine whether or not to allow this kind of solicitation. How do we go about getting this practice outlawed? -- Mark of the Valley of Roses ...!{decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!aoa!mbr
wombat@ccvaxa.UUCP (10/21/85)
Another way of dealing with evil phone-dialers- My husband and I have different last names, and the phone is listed under his name. If I pick up the phone and hear "Mrs. Marick?" my immediate response is to ask them who they are. It tends to throw the caller off guard, and they don't jump into their spiel. This gives you time to decide which of the many other dirty tricks you wish to play on them. "When you are about to die, a wombat is better than no company at all." Roger Zelazny, *Doorways in the Sand* Wombat ihnp4!uiucdcs!ccvaxa!wombat
lkk@teddy.UUCP (10/21/85)
In article <1042@mtuxo.UUCP> 45223wc@mtuxo.UUCP (w.cambre) writes: > >I usually sit there quietly while they go through their whole >summary of why their product will save all humanity, then simply >say 'Nope, I don't want it, goodbye!' and hang up. You know these >people are talking over the phone all night and their voices have >to start hurting after a while. Waste their time AND make them talk, >now that's punishment. I was once a telephone solicitor (actually a surveyor, but it the same idea). Most of the people who work at these jobs are poor or uneducated. They make close to the minimum wage, and work under pretty lousy conditions. They are under tremendous pressure to get sales (or surveys). These people generally work at such places because they have to, not because they enjoy annoying people. Beleive me, those calls they make are hurting them a lot more than they are hurting you. If someone calls you up and you're not interested, please just say so politiely. There's really no reason to extend the suffering of these individuals. BEING OBNOXIOUS TO THEM WILL NOT STOP THEM FROM CALLING. They call you based on computerized lists of numbers. They're certainly not going to remember the next time who was obnoxious and who wasn't. -- Sport Death, Larry Kolodney (USENET) ...decvax!genrad!teddy!lkk (INTERNET) lkk@mit-mc.arpa Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. - Helen Keller
doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (10/21/85)
> The sales pitch is usually disguised as a survey of some kind.
I won't answer questions for phone surveys; I wonder if the legit
survey operators are aware that the "population" they reach has
been altered?
In case someone hadn't heard yet... certain unscrupulous folks claim
to be making surveys when in fact they're filling in a credit card
application with your name, address, job and credit data, and *their*
post office box number. You can probably guess why :-( Don't EVER
give out job and credit information in response to a "survey".
--
Doug Pardee -- CalComp -- {calcom1,savax,seismo,decvax,ihnp4}!terak!dougron@hpfcla.UUCP (10/21/85)
The response containing the toll-free number that people can call
to have their names (and phone numbers) removed from telephone
solicitation lists is no longer effective.
The operator will offer, instead, an ADDRESS you can write to to have
your name removed from their INTRUSIVE TELEPHONE calling.
I will try to find the number you can call. Isn't it ironic that they
don't give out the number so you can call THEM ????
Ron Miller
No one has ever gone broke UNDERestimating the intelligence of the American
public !
FSD Service Engineering (Hardware Support)
Hewlett-Packard Co.
Ft. Collins Systems Div.
Ft. Collins Colorado
303-226-3800
at: {ihnp4}hpfcla!ronron@hpfcla.UUCP (10/21/85)
Through a little sleuthing I came up with the following:
The Direct Marketing Association keeps a list of names and numbers of those
people who desire NOT to be called. Members of the DMA (supposedly) abide
by this list. Note that your local merchants don't necessarily belong and
you may still get calls from people dialing on the basis of newspaper
reports of your misfortune, or sequentially trying to get blanket
coverage. Nevertheless, your vote with these guys may get a message across.
To be removed,call 212-689-4977 Direct Marketing Assn. The office is
in NYC.
Hope this works !
Ron Miller
No one has ever gone broke UNDERestimating the intelligence of the American
public !
FSD Service Engineering (Hardware Support)
Hewlett-Packard Co.
Ft. Collins Systems Div.
Ft. Collins Colorado
303-226-3800
at: {ihnp4}hpfcla!ronlauren@yale.ARPA (Lauren Smith) (10/23/85)
>If someone calls you up and you're not interested, please just say so >politiely. There's really no reason to extend the suffering of these >individuals. BEING OBNOXIOUS TO THEM WILL NOT STOP THEM FROM CALLING. They >call you based on computerized lists of numbers. They're certainly not going >to remember the next time who was obnoxious and who wasn't. > The problem is that the solicitors rarely even listen to you until they are done with the sales pitch (which I do not want to listen). If you try to tell them that you are not interested, they do not listen, and continue on with the sales pitch - hence the only way to get out of it is to hang-up mid-sentence or be obnoxious. When a solicitor does not listen to me when I say that I am not interested, I consider that obnoxious, and have no qualms about being obnoxious back. What is even worse is when the solicitors make mistakes (and refuse to admit it) or "make up" sales. I was away all of the summer, so my apt. was empty. I discovered when I got back that through a "successful phone solicitation" in early August, I was now subscribed to the local paper. Now, unless a burglar got into my apt, and answered the phone (highly unlikely, and no signs of entry), there was a mistake on the part of the solicitors somewhere. I explained the situation to the newspaper (I was not about to pay for a month of papers that I did not order) and said that I could prove that I was out of state at the time, and noone was in my apartment. Well, the paper said fine, and I thought that was that. Obviously, they got back to the solicitors about the problem - because the next thing I knew was that I was getting late evening phone calls (after 10:00) from the solictitors. I explained the situation several times (several calls from different people on successive evenings) and wasn't getting anywhere. Then the solicitor who claimed that I had answered the phone called me (after 11:00 PM, waking me up), and started calling me a liar, and started lecturing me and swearing at me. I hung up. The supervisor called right after that, and also begain tirading me - well, I informed her that I was going to sue for harassment - that shut her up quickly. The following day, I called the newspaper, explained the situation again, explained the treatment that I was getting from the solicitors (the swearing and name-calling), and told the paper that if I ever heard from them or the solicitors again, they would have a harassment suit on their hands. I have not had a local soliciting phone call since - I've probably been marked as a trouble-maker (thankfully). Now, if only I could be removed from regional/national lists... - Lauren Smith ARPA: smith-lauren@yale
al@mot.UUCP (Al Filipski) (10/23/85)
<>
I recently received a call from "A Computer" with some recorded sales
pitch on it with pauses for me to respond with answers to questions.
During the first pause I started to explain that I thought companies
that used automatic dialers to drum up business were scum and I
wouldn't buy anything from them if they were the last on earth, etc.
when suddenly the thing hangs up on me. It was evidently being
monitored by a real person (either that or AI is more advanced than
I thought :-). But then why play the "computer" tape at all?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Filipski, UNIX group, Motorola Microsystems, Tempe, AZ U.S.A
{seismo|ihnp4}!ut-sally!oakhill!mot!al | ucbvax!arizona!asuvax!mot!al
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Congratulations! You may already be a wiener..."wjr@x.UUCP (Bill Richard) (10/24/85)
This is STella, no mmatter what it says in the header! In article <1468@teddy.UUCP> lkk@teddy.UUCP (Larry K. Kolodney) writes: >I was once a telephone solicitor (actually a surveyor, but it the same idea). >Most of the people who work at these jobs are poor or uneducated. >They make close to the minimum wage, and work under pretty lousy conditions. >They are under tremendous pressure to get sales (or surveys). > >These people generally work at such places because they have to, not because >they enjoy annoying people. Beleive me, those calls they make are hurting them >a lot more than they are hurting you. > >If someone calls you up and you're not interested, please just say so >politiely. There's really no reason to extend the suffering of these >individuals. BEING OBNOXIOUS TO THEM WILL NOT STOP THEM FROM CALLING. They >call you based on computerized lists of numbers. They're certainly not going >to remember the next time who was obnoxious and who wasn't. Thank you, Larry, you make a good point. I too have been a phone pimp, and you're right on. When I get a call from a boiler room, I say, "I don't want to waste your time, because I've been a phone pimp. However, I do not buy over the phone, respond to phone surveys, or want to be rude to you. If you want to chat for a minute, it might relax you, and I'm willing to do that, but I don't want to waste your time." They usually thank me and go away. Sometimes, we talk for a couple of minutes. But I recently had an odd experience. I received a call from a machine that claimed to be representing AT&T. I firmly said, "I do not talk to machines!" and hung up. By and by, I got a letter thanking me for choosing AT&T as my long distance phone company. When I called to ask when I had done THAT, the human cited a date, the very date I received this call from the robo-pimp. And insisted that I had placed the call MYSELF! MCI (my co. of choice) was very "amused" at this when I told them, but my local phone co. eventually straightened things out. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Or was this just a coincidence? STella Calvert Every man and every woman is a star. Guest on: ...!decvax!frog!wjr Life: Baltimore!AnnArbor!Smyrna!<LotsOfHitchhikingAndShortVisits> !SantaCruz!Berkeley!AnnArbor!Taxachussetts Future: ... (!L5!TheBelt!InterstellarSpace)
rcd@opus.UUCP (Dick Dunn) (10/24/85)
On harrassing telephone solicitors: > I was once a telephone solicitor (actually a surveyor, but it the same idea). > Most of the people who work at these jobs are poor or uneducated. > They make close to the minimum wage, and work under pretty lousy conditions. > They are under tremendous pressure to get sales (or surveys). Bad conditions are unfortunate, but not in the least germane to the subject, which is the nuisance effect of the calls. > These people generally work at such places because they have to, not because > they enjoy annoying people. Beleive me, those calls they make are hurting them > a lot more than they are hurting you. Let's see...they're making money to annoy me...and they're suffering more? B.S. I'll accept it when I get paid for junk calls, with a bonus for when they interrupt something important or tie up my phone when I'm expecting a useful call. > If someone calls you up and you're not interested, please just say so > politiely... Even though they're being as rude as can be to me... > ...There's really no reason to extend the suffering of these > individuals... Their "suffering" is not my problem. I didn't ask them to annoy me. If they do, they're at a bad point to ask me for sympathy. (I'm sorry, Mr. Dunn, I don't really want to rob you, but my boss says it's necessary for me to make a living. Please put your hands in the air or I'll be forced to shoot you...not that I want to, mind you.) Oh, CRAP, does ANYONE in this rapidly-becoming-second-rate-nation believe one iota in personal responsibility?! The callers can either try to find an honest job or they can develop a thick skin about what they're doing. >...BEING OBNOXIOUS TO THEM WILL NOT STOP THEM FROM CALLING. That's the only REALLY good argument so far against being obnoxious--that it doesn't work! -- Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086 ...At last it's the real thing...or close enough to pretend.
becky@cylixd.UUCP (Becky Bates) (10/25/85)
> > The sales pitch is usually disguised as a survey of some kind. > > I won't answer questions for phone surveys; I wonder if the legit > survey operators are aware that the "population" they reach has > been altered? > > In case someone hadn't heard yet... certain unscrupulous folks claim > to be making surveys when in fact they're filling in a credit card > application with your name, address, job and credit data, and *their* > post office box number. You can probably guess why :-( Don't EVER > give out job and credit information in response to a "survey". > -- > Doug Pardee -- CalComp -- {calcom1,savax,seismo,decvax,ihnp4}!terak!doug *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH CREDIT LINE *** Doug I don't subscribe to this news group but a co-worker showed me your article and I thought I would tell you all about a few of the crack calls I have gotten. CASE #1 - We recently had our Mid-South Fair and I entered several of the contests for free (anything). Well as I did this there was this little voice in the back of my mind, (Remember Rosanna Rosanna Danna? on SNLIVE?), like my mother always said you need to be careful what you sign up for and what you sign !!period!! Well about 3 weeks later I got a call from this Vacation travel agency out of Boca Rotan, Fla. , they always seem to be out of Boca Rotan or close to the coast so the FBI can't find their boat or operation. They told me I had won a free vacation, in fact 3 that I could take in the course of a year. One to Disneyworld, one in Jamaca or Bahamas (sp), and one, guess where, Accupulco (sp) Mexico. By the way this call came the week of the earthquake happened and the guy insured me that his hotel was still standing, can you imagine? You would have to pay air fare and everything else except the hotel fee. Case #2 - I received a call from a gentleman with a British accent again from the Florida area. He wanted me to invest in art pieces at a cost of only $900.00 dollars and guess what it was as easy as giving him my credit card number. Be careful people, never give your number over the phone. If it is something you really want get their name,number and address and tell them you will call them back. Then call the Better Business Bureau, FBI, or whatever is necessary to insure that you will not have a $0.00 balance in your checking account anytime soon. Just some helpful hints from a potential victim that did not become one. RCA - Cylix (part of Globecom now!) big whoop Becky Bates Memphis, TN. !ihnp4!akgub!cylixd!becky
goldman@ittvax.ATC.ITT.UUCP (Ken Goldman) (10/28/85)
> to start hurting after a while. Waste their time AND make them talk, > now that's punishment. Assuming that they call at a reasonable time (they usually do), I try to cut off the pitch as politely as possible. I figure these people have found a very difficult way to earn a living and the last thing they need is a wise guy trying to punish them. Try saying something nice before you hang up - it will make you both feel good.
rjn@hpfcla.UUCP (10/29/85)
re: some mail that I got on this topic [telephone solicitation]: > I agree with your article and do exactly what you advise, only at times I > get the people calling back and then saying obscenities. I recognize the > voice, and it generally will happen immediately after the call. > > What I want to know is, isn't there a FCC (???? or one of those wonderful > government agencies) that issues licenses to telephone solicitators??? > > Possibly, if you ask the junk caller for the licenses number this may scare > them away and put your name on the list of all of those "to smart to bother > with" consumers. "Wonderful government agencies" is a contradiction in terms. In any case, I am not aware that ANY kind of license is required to USE a telephone for any purpose (and please don't give them any ideas). The FCC does license equipment which is to be connected to the phone system, but that does not affect how it is used. The real problem with a phone company is that it is a geographic monopoly (enforced by statute). Where there's no freedom, there's no competition, and there's no choice. So the phone company has to establish rules of use (tarrifs) which suit the greatest number (or most influential regulator). They have little incentive to explore alternate forms of agreement with individual subscribers, since you have nowhere else to go. Change comes slowly in such markets. Nonetheless, I understand that some exchanges are now adding services like: * Denial of connection by callers whose number you specify. * Instant tracing of locally placed calls. You can lodge complaints more easily. Regards, Hewlett-Packard Bob Niland 3404 East Harmony Road hplabs!hpfcla!rjn Fort Collins CO 80525
ron@hpfcla.UUCP (10/29/85)
Responding to "never give them your card #"
It is worth saying that there is a modification to this statement.
Never give them your card # if they call you.
I enjoy the convenience of using telephone ordering of merchandise but
I am careful to choose reputable companies and I am the one doing the
calling. Even this probably has a bit of risk but I feel it is minimal.
As for them calling me, well, I don't let them get far enough thru their
pitch to ask for the sale before the call is ended.
Ron Miller
No one has ever gone broke UNDERestimating the intelligence of the American
public !
FSD Service Engineering (Hardware Support)
Hewlett-Packard Co.
Ft. Collins Systems Div.
Ft. Collins Colorado
303-226-3800
at: {ihnp4}hpfcla!ronken@birtch.UUCP (Ken) (10/30/85)
> In article <370@cylixd.UUCP> dave@cylixd.UUCP (Dave Kirby) writes: > >A particularly insidious kind of sales call now appearing in several > >cities is one which is initiated by computer, and contains recorded > > . > > . > > These machines are especially obnoxious since they refuse to release your > phone line until they are done with you. > . > . I agree. One of these machines called the number where I work (my boss had a private line to his office, and he was away). It started the recording, and I hung up. IT CALLED BACK!! and started the recording over again. Again, I hung up, and, yes, it called back. The thing would not let me (the phone line) go until it had played the whole message (about two minutes worth). If anyone out there in net_land works at one of these places that use this type of machine, or knows someone who does, tell them to *PLEASE* allow the person who answers to hang up, without being harassed! respectfully, Ken B.
billfoy@aero.ARPA (Bill Foy) (10/30/85)
Although, leaving the caller waiting for you to return to the phone certainly does waste his time, it wastes yours too, not to mention making your number unavailable to other callers. What I have found to be effective is to simply say "I don't accept phone solicitations." without acknowledging or answering any of the lead in comments or questions. The polite ones say "Thanks you" and hang up; the others just hang up. Bill Foy
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (11/01/85)
> > to start hurting after a while. Waste their time AND make them talk, > > now that's punishment. > > Assuming that they call at a reasonable time (they usually do), I try > to cut off the pitch as politely as possible. I figure these people > have found a very difficult way to earn a living and the last thing > they need is a wise guy trying to punish them. Try saying something > nice before you hang up - it will make you both feel good. Thank you very much. My wife works night about three times a week. When she doesn't she does telephone surveys for a marketing research company. She announces herself, what she would like the callee to do, which is watch a tv program, and say that someone would call the next day to get their response. The whole bit takes 30 seconds. 30 SECONDS. Usually she gets about 5 people to agree and maybe 3 watch. $3 bucks a person. Works about from 6:30 to 8:00 p.m. for $9. (would you do it?). We have three kids all under 5 and no twins and the last thing she needs is some smart ass playing kid games. I thank the above poster for having some human feelings left.
tuba@ur-tut.UUCP (Jon Krueger) (11/05/85)
>>A particularly insidious kind of sales call now appearing in several >>cities is one which is initiated by computer . . . >>These machines are especially obnoxious since they refuse to release your >>phone line until they are done with you. >I agree. One of these machines called the number where I work (my boss >had a private line to his office, and he was away). It started the >recording, and I hung up. IT CALLED BACK!! and started the recording >over again. Again, I hung up, and, yes, it called back. The thing >would not let me (the phone line) go until it had played the whole >message (about two minutes worth). In beautiful Rochester, New York, a photo shop called Camera Castle bought some autodialers and turned them loose. I received two calls from them, both starting with a taped message saying "you may have already won a Commodore 64 Color Computer!" Imagine my delight. I was able to hang up on both calls. But I felt that hanging up the first call should have told Camera Castle I wasn't interested. I decided I don't pay Rochester Telephone $14 per month to receive unsolicited advertising. In my view, private phone lines simply are not an acceptable medium for commercial advertising. I can turn off the TV or radio if the ads get too bad, I can stop a newspaper or magazine subscription, but I can't unplug the phone. Any time it rings, it might be IMPORTANT. So any time it rings, it interrupts my life. I pay my monthly phone bill for the service of a private and dependable communications medium. I feel it's worth my bucks so that people can reach me. Camera Castle and their ilk have no right to interrupt my life and steal my time and my phone service. I called Camera Castle and requested that they stop calling me. I also asked them to stop calling anyone. They refused. I called Roch Tel, got their annoyance call complaint, and sent it in. At their suggestion, I called the NYS attorney general and filled out a consumer complaint. Both Roch Tel and the attorney general's office told me that unsolicited automated phone advertising is legal, but many consumers are pissed about it. Most of the discussion in this newsgroup has centered around getting calls from people. I was once a telephone solicitor myself. I didn't like my work, but I needed the money at the time. So I tolerate a few calls from people. Some employment is being generated, and the cost of that employment limits the amount of advertising that will be done this way. Of course, neither is true when an automated system makes the calls. As an added danger, there are some circumstances where the receiving end can't break the connection. I have never known this to be true when people make the calls. -- -- Jon Krueger UUCP: ...seismo!rochester!ur-tut!tuba BITNET: TUBA@UORDBV USMAIL: University of Rochester Taylor Hall Rocheseter, NY 14627 (716) 275-2811 "A Vote for Barry is a Vote for Fun"
mazlack@ernie.BERKELEY.EDU (Lawrence J. &) (11/06/85)
>> Assuming that they call at a reasonable time (they usually do), I try >> to cut off the pitch as politely as possible. I figure these people >> have found a very difficult way to earn a living and the last thing >> they need is a wise guy trying to punish them. Try saying something >> nice before you hang up - it will make you both feel good. > >Thank you very much. My wife works night about three times a week. >When she doesn't she does telephone surveys for a marketing research >company. She announces herself, what she would like the callee to do, >which is watch a tv program, and say that someone would call the next >day to get their response. > >The whole bit takes 30 seconds. 30 SECONDS. Usually she gets about 5 >people to agree and maybe 3 watch. $3 bucks a person. Works about from >6:30 to 8:00 p.m. for $9. (would you do it?). > >We have three kids all under 5 and no twins and the last thing she needs >is some smart ass playing kid games. > >I thank the above poster for having some human feelings left. But, still, what makes you apparently believe that you have the RIGHT to intrude, uninvited, upon people in their homes? Do YOU listen to the full sales pitch of salesmen or religious advocates who come by your door or meet you on the street? In one case (salesmen), they have the same motivation. In the other (religious), they sincerely believe that they are offering you the greatest possible gift. ...Larry Mazlack
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (11/07/85)
> >Thank you very much. My wife works night about three times a week. > >When she doesn't she does telephone surveys for a marketing research > >company. She announces herself, what she would like the callee to do, > >which is watch a tv program, and say that someone would call the next > >day to get their response. > > > But, still, what makes you apparently believe that you have the RIGHT to > intrude, uninvited, upon people in their homes? Do YOU listen to the full > sales pitch of salesmen or religious advocates who come by your door or meet > you on the street? In one case (salesmen), they have the same motivation. > In the other (religious), they sincerely believe that they are offering you > the greatest possible gift. > ...Larry Mazlack I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you don't use it.
andrew@orca.UUCP (Andrew Klossner) (11/08/85)
> My wife works night about three times a week. > When she doesn't she does telephone surveys for a marketing research > company. She announces herself, what she would like the callee to do, > which is watch a tv program, and say that someone would call the next > day to get their response. > > The whole bit takes 30 seconds. 30 SECONDS. Usually she gets about 5 > people to agree and maybe 3 watch. $3 bucks a person. Works about from > 6:30 to 8:00 p.m. for $9. (would you do it?). > > We have three kids all under 5 and no twins and the last thing she needs > is some smart ass playing kid games. My Uncle Lenny also has a hard time finding work. To put food on the table, he had to take a job as an enforcer for a downtown loan shark. It's not so bad, really ... he enters a deadbeat's home or place of business, announces himself, what he would like the client to do, spends no more than two or three minutes roughing the fellow up, then leaves after saying that someone would call later in the week to get their response. It really upsets him when the client resists; Uncle Lenny is on a tight schedule (he's paid by the number of broken bones) and the last thing he needs is some smartass playing games. :-) (for the gullible) I don't care how polite a junk phone caller is, or how little of my time they want to take, or how worthwhile their concern is, or how badly they need the money. If they interrupt me in the privacy of my home (ever notice that it's almost always during dinner?), they deserve only contempt. I experimented with a number of schemes, but now, as soon as I determine that it's a junk phone call, I hang up. I don't slam down the phone, I don't say anything (rude or otherwise); I just minimize the instrusion. Fortunately Oregon has a law requiring all junk callers to identify their purpose within the first thirty seconds. -=- Andrew Klossner (decvax!tektronix!tekecs!andrew) [UUCP] (tekecs!andrew.tektronix@csnet-relay) [ARPA]
kemasa@sdcc13.UUCP (kemasa) (11/08/85)
In article <1979@bmcg.UUCP> bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) writes: >I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's >why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you >don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you >don't use it. You have to right to call any number? I think there is a law againest prank phone calls. Is it absurd to say unplug it or don't have a phone. It is for calling for emergency and other such things. How would you like it to have everyone on the net calling you every hour so that no one else could get a hold of you in case of emergency because you unplugged it? I don't care about junk mail, but junk phone calls bother me, especially when they don't use real people to and use computers or recorded messages. The phone book is to find the number of someone you want to talk to, not to try to sell strangers things. Does that also mean that your door is there for people to knock on? and that you should seal it up if you don't want salemen to come? It is easy to put a sign 'no salemem' or something like that, but with the phone they say you can have it excluded from the reverse index, but police and fire depts. use it. So what do you do. I don't think the solution is to do without because of abuse by others. Kemasa.
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (11/08/85)
> In article <1979@bmcg.UUCP> bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) writes: > >I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > >why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you > >don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > >don't use it. > > You have to right to call any number? I think there is a law againest prank > phone calls. Is it absurd to say unplug it or don't have a phone. It Wait a minute!!!! I did not say anything about prank phone calls. What I said was that I can dial any number in the phone book and say Hello. > is for calling for emergency and other such things. How would you like > it to have everyone on the net calling you every hour so that no one else > could get a hold of you in case of emergency because you unplugged it? If you value your privacy THAT much get a unlisted phone number. Or if you are economy minded (cheap) dont, but list the name in the phone book as someone else. > I don't care about junk mail, but junk phone calls bother me, especially > when they don't use real people to and use computers or recorded messages. I'm not talking about computer or recorded messages. > The phone book is to find the number of someone you want to talk to, not > to try to sell strangers things. Does that also mean that your door is The solicitor wanted to talk to you so they used the phone book.
cc-06@ucbcory.BERKELEY.EDU (Ilya Goldberg) (11/11/85)
In article <1979@bmcg.UUCP> bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) writes: >I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's >why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you >don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you >don't use it. You are WRONG! Your phone book will give you a complete list of rules as to who you may and may not call. Just as a small example, try calling your local police station's emergency phone number (which IS listed in the phone book) without a reason and see what they think about that. Ilya
ecl@mtgzz.UUCP (e.c.leeper) (11/11/85)
> I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you > don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > don't use it. As for the idea that because there is a phone book, you have the right to interrupt me whenever you want, that's like saying that because I am walking down a public street, you have the right to stop me and refuse to let me pass until you've given me your spiel. Both are bunk! (The other (often-suggested) solution is to have an unlisted phone number. This doesn't work--many companies just dial sequentially.) Evelyn C. Leeper ...ihnp4!mtgzz!ecl
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (11/11/85)
> > My wife works night about three times a week. > > When she doesn't she does telephone surveys for a marketing research > > company. She announces herself, what she would like the callee to do, > > which is watch a tv program, and say that someone would call the next > > day to get their response. > > > I experimented with a number of schemes, but now, as soon as I > determine that it's a junk phone call, I hang up. I don't slam down > the phone, I don't say anything (rude or otherwise); I just minimize > the instrusion. Fortunately Oregon has a law requiring all junk > callers to identify their purpose within the first thirty seconds. > > -=- Andrew Klossner (decvax!tektronix!tekecs!andrew) [UUCP] > (tekecs!andrew.tektronix@csnet-relay) [ARPA] Thank You Andrew, that is the point I was making. Wish more people had been like you. If these phone calls are offensive to someone just hang up. Why be a baby and perform kindergarten pranks to get even. Get even with who? My wife just shrugs and figures these people didn't have enough grey matter to make a desicion anyway. ------ sdcsvax!bmcg!bobn bob nebert
kemasa@sdcc13.UUCP (kemasa) (11/11/85)
I think what this whole thing comes down to is a way to allow people to look up your phone number if they forget it without having to put up with junk phone calls. It is easy to put up a sign in front of your house saying no salespeople, but how do you do the same thing with the phone. I don't like being rude to people who call, or come to the door, but it is sometimes bothersome to deal with. With these methods you can't look over the material as you can with junk mail. I don' want to limit my phone to only the people I have thought to give my number to by getting an unlisted number, but that doesn't mean I want every salesman to call me. It would be nice if the people who called asked after about 15 seconds if you are interested and take NO as answer so you don't have to be rude. I really don't care to tell a newspaper why I decided to get another paper instead of their paper, I also don't like being asked to get a paper I already get. I once was called several times on our two phone lines for some photograph to be taken (You have won, now just call this number to collect...) and when I complained that their machine kept calling I was told if you don't like it, don't answer! If the phone company would allow you to know the number of the calling party I think it would get rid of junk phone calls and prank calls, and I don't think it would be that hard to impliment. Kemasa.
mazlack@ernie.BERKELEY.EDU (Lawrence J. &) (11/11/85)
In article <1981@bmcg.UUCP> bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) writes: >> In article <1979@bmcg.UUCP> bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) writes: >> >I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's >> >why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you >> >don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you >> >don't use it. >> >> You have to right to call any number? I think there is a law againest prank >> phone calls. Is it absurd to say unplug it or don't have a phone. It > >If you value your privacy THAT much get a unlisted phone number. Or if >you are economy minded (cheap) dont, but list the name in the phone book >as someone else. > I think that you have missed something in all this discussion. And that thing is that MOST telephone soliciters DO NOT USE the "normal" telephone book, but instead use an autodialer which simply incrementally calls all telelephone numbers in an exchange, no matter how they are listed. Or, if they are being a little more selective, they use a "reverse directory" which lists phone numbers incrementally by street address. Irregardless, I still believe the issue is one of personal space and privacy. You are probably unhappy when a person approaches you on the street to sell you something. Even more so, when you are in your private, personal space. ... Larry Mazlack
res@ihlpl.UUCP (Rich Strebendt @ AT&T Information Systems - Indian Hill West; formerly) (11/12/85)
> > >Thank you very much. My wife works night about three times a week. > > >When she doesn't she does telephone surveys for a marketing research > > >company. > > > > But, still, what makes you apparently believe that you have the RIGHT to > > intrude, uninvited, upon people in their homes? > > I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > why their is a phone book). BULLSHIT!!! I have a phone so that I can call people and businesses I need to contact (such as relatives and department stores), and to receive calls from people who need to contact me on business in which I am interested (such as information that my order has arrived at Sears, or that a friend is inviting us to dinner). I do not have one so that any clown in the country can call me at three in the morning to shout obscenities at me, or so that a telephone sales person can offer me such a deal for a product that I have no interest in. Both of these latter cases are examples of unwanted intrusion into my home. > You have the right to hang up on me. If you > don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > don't use it. This is like suggesting that if I don't want my home burglarized I should not have doors in the home. Double bullshit. Rich Strebendt ...!ihnp4!iwsl6!res
ron@hpfcla.UUCP (11/12/85)
I hear several concerns:
1. How come I have to take this ?
2. How can I stop it ?
It seems like most of the responses are in category 1. I strenuously
object to the practice of telephone solicitation but being rude to the
caller will not prevent the next sales caller.
I want to know, HOW CAN I PREVENT THEM FROM CALLING IN THE FIRST PLACE ??
(So far, not a damn thing !)
Ron Miller
No one has ever gone broke UNDERestimating the intelligence of the American
public !
Service Engineering (Hardware Support)
Hewlett-Packard Co.
Ft. Collins Systems Div.
Ft. Collins Colorado
303-226-3800
at: {ihnp4}hpfcla!ronrcd@opus.UUCP (Dick Dunn) (11/12/85)
> I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you > don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > don't use it. You mean "there is a phone book". No, bimbo, that's not why there's a phone book, and if you call me just for the hell of it, I will tell the phone company that you're using the phone to create a nuisance. You do not have the right to intrude on someone else, and I'm sorry that you've got such a perverted notion of freedom as to think so. Where did your "right" come from? I know, the 43rd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America...the right to inflict your obnoxious presence on whoever will tolerate it? -- Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086 ...If you get confused just listen to the music play...
tuba@ur-tut.UUCP (Jon Krueger) (11/13/85)
In article <1979@bmcg.UUCP> bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) writes: >I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's >why there is a phone book). You have the ability to call any number in the book. You also have the ability to call the unlisted numbers, as is done by autodialers that call sequences of numbers. You also have the ability to knock on any door of any residence. In fact, many physical paths are available to you to interrupt people, tie up their communication links, and waste their time. Any such path gives you the ability. None of them gives you the right. Suppose I buy phone service which screens out your calls. Have I infringed on your rights? No, I've exercised mine. >You have the right to hang up on me. If you don't want your privacy >invaded, a. Don't have a phone b. Unplug it when you don't use it. Should I also blockade my door when I'm not using it? Do you believe that wherever I provide access to my life, you have the right to abuse it? I pay my access fees so that people can reach me. Are you willing to pay me back to compensate me for my loss of phone service? I'll add a surcharge to cover my time lost and inconvenience suffered. If you're willing to go the expense, you can buy the right. My .signature lists several ways of reaching me. I provide the list as a courtesy to those who would like to reach me. You may not conclude that you have the right to do so. For instance, I could change my network address or phone number. I would not be violating your rights, but rather exercising mine.
ron@hpfcla.UUCP (11/13/85)
Oh gasp !
Not Commercials-Removed-From-Television-and-Placed-On-The-Phone-Line !!!!
Surely there would be legislation if the advertising medium-of-choice became
the telephone.
I really hate legislating solutions but.... I would support a law prohibiting
telephone solicitation or a compromise requiring that such companies check
the database which has a PERMISSION GRANTED or NOT GRANTED category besides
name, telephone #, annual income, debt level, home-owner/not etc
It sure would be nice if phone technology could advance to the point of
an electronic "No Solicitors" sign.
Ron Miller
No one has ever gone broke UNDERestimating the intelligence of the American
public !
Service Engineering (Hardware Support)
Hewlett-Packard Co.
Ft. Collins Systems Div.
Ft. Collins Colorado
303-226-3800
at: {ihnp4}hpfcla!ronbobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (11/13/85)
> In article <1979@bmcg.UUCP> bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) writes: > >I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > >why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you > >don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > >don't use it. > > You are WRONG! Your phone book will give you a complete list of > rules as to who you may and may not call. Just as a small example, > try calling your local police station's emergency phone number (which > IS listed in the phone book) without a reason and see what they think > about that. > > Ilya WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE OUT THERE????? DOSEN'T ANYBODY REMEMBER HOW TO READ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > try calling your local police station's emergency phone number (which > IS listed in the phone book) without a reason and see what they think I never said anything about calling without a reason. ALL I SAID WAS I CAN LEGALLY CALL ANY NUMBER IN THE PHONE BOOK AND NOT GET PUT IN JAIL FOR DOING IT. IF I CALL THE POLICE EMERGENCY NUMBER I BETTER HAVE A DAMN GOOD REASON, OF COURSE. Rick Adams mailed this to me: { > I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you > don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > don't use it. So what if I have an unlisted number? I still get the shit calls because they don't use the phone book. They dial sequentially. ---rick } If you had a unlisted phone number it wouldn't be in the goddamn phone book would it? I'm not talking about autodialing. I hate that also. My wife works from ONLY a phone book.
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (11/13/85)
> > I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > > why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you > > don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > > don't use it. > > As for the idea that because there is a phone book, you have the right to > interrupt me whenever you want, that's like saying that because I am walking > down a public street, you have the right to stop me and refuse to let me pass > until you've given me your spiel. Both are bunk! > > (The other(often-suggested) solution is to have an unlisted phone number. This > doesn't work--many companies just dial sequentially.) > > Evelyn C. Leeper > ...ihnp4!mtgzz!ecl When this discussion started it was about politeness when they call. It has turned into if they can legally call. It's a big difference, but anyway. As far as your statement above, Evelyn, your correct except I cannot physically stop you. If you care to listen to my spiel, stop. If you don't, keep walking. If I follow and keep yaking, thats wrong and thats harrassment, maybe? I just wanted to point out in the beginning that people have the right to use the phone to work and some politeness would be nice. Everybody gets up on the wrong side of the bed once in a while and can be grumpy but don't you react better to a smile than a frown?
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (11/14/85)
In article <358@sdcc13.UUCP> kemasa@sdcc13.UUCP (kemasa) writes: >I think what this whole thing comes down to is a way to allow people to >look up your phone number if they forget it without having to put up >with junk phone calls. It is easy to put up a sign in front of your >house saying no salespeople, but how do you do the same thing with the >phone. ... I think you've got the answer here. The phone company, and other directory publishers, should have a service where a special character is placed by your entry in the directories (especially the reverse directories). Said character to be the equivalent of a "No Solicitors" sign on your door. Anyone (or anything (-: ) calling such a marked number for purposes of delivering a sales pitch would be subject to prosecution just as obscene phone callers are now. (Note: you probably don't want to be delisted from the reverse directory. Other people use them besides salesmen. E.g.: suicide prevention centers use them to trace callers in emergency situations). >If the phone company would allow you to know the number of the calling >party I think it would get rid of junk phone calls and prank calls, and >I don't think it would be that hard to impliment. This is being implemented in some areas, but it's expensive and doesn't work with long-distance calls yet. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp(+)TTI The more I work with C, the more I 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. appreciate the simple elegance of Santa Monica, CA 90405 FORTRAN. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (11/14/85)
> > > But, still, what makes you apparently believe that you have the RIGHT to > > > intrude, uninvited, upon people in their homes? > > > > I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > > why their is a phone book). > > BULLSHIT!!! I have a phone so that I can call people and businesses I > need to contact (such as relatives and department stores), and to Okay, so far so good. Remember now that the solicitors have phones so that they can call people that they need to contact. (If it's a valid reason for you it's a valid reason for them). > receive calls from people who need to contact me on business in which I > am interested (such as information that my order has arrived at Sears, It is possible that you could be interested in what they are selling. So far we are doing ok |-) > or that a friend is inviting us to dinner). I do not have one so that > any clown in the country can call me at three in the morning to shout > obscenities at me, or so that a telephone sales person can offer me Oh Oh! Talk about obscenities. Look at the first word of your reply. You shouted obscenities to the whole world (net.*** or was your shift button stuck? Or maybe obscenities gravitate to you because they surround you? (Water seeks it's oun level principle). Three in the morning? Which version of readnews do you subscribe to? I have never seen anybody at anytime say anything about three in the morning. > such a deal for a product that I have no interest in. Both of these How do you or they know that you have no interest in buying an article. Don't tell me that you have never in your life been a subject of impulse buying. > latter cases are examples of unwanted intrusion into my home. > > > You have the right to hang up on me. If you > > don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > > don't use it. > > This is like suggesting that if I don't want my home burglarized I > should not have doors in the home. Double bullshit. Okay Rich, I'll give you this one. > > Rich Strebendt > ...!ihnp4!iwsl6!res Bob Nebert sdcsvax!bmcg!bobn
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (11/14/85)
> > I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > > why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you > > don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > > don't use it. > > You mean "there is a phone book". No, bimbo, that's not why there's a Bimbo! Good Lord it's getting exciting now! Suppose you, in all of your worldly knowledge, enlighten us as to why there is a phone book (you said I was wrong, but never said why). > phone book, and if you call me just for the hell of it, I will tell the > phone company that you're using the phone to create a nuisance. You do not Correct you are. And I would do the same thing. But I am performing a job or service (whichever term you like, I don't care) which is legal and liscensed and in a gainful employment mode. I'm not calling people and breathing hard into the receiver for giggles. > have the right to intrude on someone else, and I'm sorry that you've got > such a perverted notion of freedom as to think so. > > Where did your "right" come from? I know, the 43rd Amendment to the > Constitution of the United States of America...the right to inflict your > obnoxious presence on whoever will tolerate it? You seem to share that same right. > Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086 > ...If you get confused just listen to the music play... Open note to anybody who has been reading this dribble for the last two weeks or so: I started out by stating a point and it mushroomed into what my perverted notion of freedom is. I don't want to talk about that. If anybody wants to talk about the origional postings I will otherwise I don't discuss things with people (as sincere as you are) who don't read what I write, and quote me as saying things I don't say.
gnome@olivee.UUCP (Gary Traveis) (11/16/85)
> > >Thank you very much. My wife works night about three times a week. > > >When she doesn't she does telephone surveys for a marketing research > > >company. She announces herself, what she would like the callee to do, > > >which is watch a tv program, and say that someone would call the next > > >day to get their response. > > > > > But, still, what makes you apparently believe that you have the RIGHT to > > intrude, uninvited, upon people in their homes? Do YOU listen to the full > > sales pitch of salesmen or religious advocates who come by your door or meet > > you on the street? In one case (salesmen), they have the same motivation. > > In the other (religious), they sincerely believe that they are offering you > > the greatest possible gift. > > ...Larry Mazlack > > I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. If you > don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > don't use it. "That's why they're in the phone book" -- Many of these miracles of advertisizing ingenuity simple start off with 555-0000 and work their way up to 555-9999. Why? Because they know WHERE 555-NNNN is located. This makes unlisted numbers (which actually cost MORE) just as open to junk-callers as those unlucky people who have given up their right to privacy by listing their numbers in the phone book. When those machines call, I like to 3-way their machine with a Dial-a-prayer recording.
gadfly@ihuxn.UUCP (Gadfly) (11/17/85)
-- > I think you've got the answer here. The phone company, and other > directory publishers, should have a service where a special > character is placed by your entry in the directories (especially > the reverse directories). Said character to be the equivalent > of a "No Solicitors" sign on your door... > > The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Well, of course they won't do that, but imagine my surprise at getting an insert with my last bill from Illinois Bell--it was a card to fill out and return if you wanted your name/number *not* to be included on the phone lists that the telco sells. It's a step in the right direction. -- *** *** JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** ***** ****** ****** 16 Nov 85 [26 Brumaire An CXCIV] ken perlow ***** ***** (312)979-7753 ** ** ** ** ..ihnp4!iwsl8!ken *** ***
nielsen@hplabsc.UUCP (Walter Nielsen) (11/19/85)
> > But, still, what makes you apparently believe that you have the RIGHT to > > intrude, uninvited, upon people in their homes? > > > I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > why their is a phone book). > .... > You have the right to hang up on me. If you > don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > don't use it. > > Bob Nebert > sdcsvax!bmcg!bobn Bob, I have an idea, why don't you post your home phone number on the net for everybody. Or better yet, maybe everybody could just look it up in the phone book and call you to continue this discussion. After all, if you don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you don't use it. And we do have the right to call anyone in the phone book (right Bob ??). Seriously, where did you get this preverted notion that solicitors have a right to call anybody in the phone book and make a sales pitch ? Can you imagine if more and more companies started to revert to this type of advertising ? Imagine getting one of these calls every 2 or 3 minutes all day and night !! That is why I am rude to telephone solicitors, to discourage this practice NOW !! I'm sure if they found too many people abusive, they could always get a job at McDonalds or something. But the point is to let them know that what they are doing is very obnoxious to most of the public. Walter Nielsen sdcrdcf!hplabs!hplabsc!nielsen
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (11/20/85)
> In article <1979@bmcg.UUCP> bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) writes: > >I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > >why there is a phone book). > > You have the ability to call any number in the book. You also have the > ability to call the unlisted numbers, as is done by autodialers that call > sequences of numbers. You also have the ability to knock on any door of any > residence. In fact, many physical paths are available to you to interrupt > people, tie up their communication links, and waste their time. Any such > path gives you the ability. None of them gives you the right. Suppose I Finally somebody hit on it. Alright Jon. Of course I don't have the right to poke my nose where it is not wanted. You know, I hate those phone calls to, but nobody ever asked me my view. Anyway, the problem is, as Jon points out is the path and ability are there. The problem now is how to eliminate the path or make it illegal to use it. Someone pointed out to have the phone company put a characture (sp) next to your phone # indicating that you DO NOT want salespeople calling. The indicater is free and if it is violated it is deemed as a prank, or whatever term you want to call it, call. That system seems fair and reasonable to me. But the autodialers are still immune to it. Any ideas. > My .signature lists several ways of reaching me. I provide the list as a > courtesy to those who would like to reach me. You may not conclude that you > have the right to do so. For instance, I could change my network address or I kinda disagree. If you put your path in a posting in a way you are granting people access to reach you.
mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU (11/21/85)
> I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. Fine (as long as you define a "right" as anything you can get away with without fear of being arrested). So what's your problem? I have the right to tell you to go to hell and to slam the phone down, right? What's that? You demand that I be "polite"? You want me to say "Sorry I took so long to answer the phone, but I was asleep. I'm afraid I don't want any of the worthless shit you're selling. I'm sorry I wasted your valuable time." Sorry, Bob, you can't have everything you want. > If you > don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > don't use it. I see. You admit that it's an invasion, but say "Hey, that's your problem. I don't make the rules, I only abuse them." You're an even bigger asshole than I thought. Scott McEwan {ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!mcewan "A flash in front of my eyes ... I blink ... open my eyes to ... discover I am a dog in a pickup truck full of garbage ... no one but me sees the lid blow off the can ... it's 14 miles to the dump ... this is ... at last ... heaven."
danny@sftig.UUCP (L.Rosler) (11/23/85)
> I hear several concerns: > > 1. How come I have to take this ? > > 2. How can I stop it ? I just received a letter from a company telling me that my phone number could win me money. Inside, it said "simply" send in your phone number to be eligible for the prizes. It didn't even tell what the prizes were (maybe there aren't any). This is one way they get your number and distribute it. This method is too obvious to catch many people but the unaware will start getting calls. Dan Rosler ihnp4!attunix!danny
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (11/25/85)
> > > I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > > why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. > > Fine(as long as you define a "right" as anything you can get away with without > fear of being arrested). So what's your problem? I have the right to tell you > to go to hell and to slam the phone down, right? What's that? You demand that You sure do have the right to tell me to go to hell and slam the phone down. And maybe after recess the teacher will give you milk and cookies. God your going to have fun when you get to the second grade. What do you do when a commerical comes on tv during your favorite show? Hmmmm lets see. (screams at tv) " What! how dare you invade my privacy with ads for worthless shit I don't need. (grabs tv and does a Darrel Dawkins slam, just like the phone, "Take that, invade my privacy will you". > I be "polite"? You want me to say "Sorry I took so long to answer the phone, > but I was asleep. I'm afraid I don't want any of the worthless shit you're > selling. I'm sorry I wasted your valuable time." Sorry, Bob, you can't have > everything you want. > > > If you > > don't want your privacy invaded, a. Dont have a phone b. Unplug it when you > > don't use it. > > I see. You admit that it's an invasion, but say "Hey, that's your problem. > I don't make the rules, I only abuse them." > > You're an even bigger asshole than I thought. > > Scott McEwan > {ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!mcewan > > "A flash in front of my eyes ... I blink ... open my eyes to ... discover I am > a dog in a pickup truck full of garbage ... no one but me sees the lid blow > off the can ... it's 14 miles to the dump ... this is ... at last ... heaven." *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (11/25/85)
---more--- We had a power drop and this posting went out before I was done. > > > > > I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's > > > why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. > > > >Fine(as long as you define a "right" as anything you can get away with without > >fear of being arrested). So what's your problem? I have the right to tell you > >to go to hell and to slam the phone down, right? What's that? You demand that > > You sure do have the right to tell me to go to hell and slam the phone down. > And maybe after recess the teacher will give you milk and cookies. > God your going to have fun when you get to the second grade. > What do you do when a commerical comes on tv during your favorite show? > Hmmmm lets see. (screams at tv) " What! how dare you invade my privacy > with ads for worthless shit I don't need. (grabs tv and does a Darrel > Dawkins slam, just like the phone, "Take that, invade my privacy will you". > > > I be "polite"? You want me to say "Sorry I took so long to answer the phone, > > but I was asleep. I'm afraid I don't want any of the worthless shit you're > > selling. I'm sorry I wasted your valuable time." Sorry, Bob, you can't have > > everything you want. Who said I can have everything I want? > > > If you > > > don't want your privacy invaded, a.Dont have a phone b.Unplug it when you > > > don't use it. > > > > I see. You admit that it's an invasion, but say "Hey, that's your problem. I guess it's because I learned how to read. I never said it was an invasion of privacy everybody else did. I also conceded the point about a and b. If your not to busy ranting and raving you would have seen it. (Yes when I think I'm proven wrong, I concede the point. It is called 'learning'. Try it sometime Scott. > > I don't make the rules, I only abuse them." > > > > You're an even bigger asshole than I thought. > > > > Scott McEwan > > {ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!mcewan > > > >"A flash in front of my eyes ...I blink ... open my eyes to ... discover I am > > a dog in a pickup truck full of garbage ... no one but me sees the lid blow > >off the can ...it's 14 miles to the dump ... this is ... at last ... heaven." It's your own signature file not mine. But somehow I think iut fits. BTW: I'm getting bored by this subject so I don't plan on responding anymore. ( I know..clap,clap,clap) But I just wanted to say that I dont like it when I get phone calls. I consider it an inconvience (sp) but not a invasion. I tried to keep some humor in the discussion but...... anyway onto the next subject where hopefully I wont be alone. >
mazlack@ernie.BERKELEY.EDU (Lawrence J. &) (11/27/85)
>> > I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's >> > why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. >> >> Fine(as long as you define a "right" as anything you can get away with without >> fear of being arrested). So what's your problem? I have the right to tell you >> to go to hell and to slam the phone down, right? What's that? You demand that > >You sure do have the right to tell me to go to hell and slam the phone down. >And maybe after recess the teacher will give you milk and cookies. >God your going to have fun when you get to the second grade. >What do you do when a commerical comes on tv during your favorite show? >Hmmmm lets see. (screams at tv) " What! how dare you invade my privacy >with ads for worthless shit I don't need. (grabs tv and does a Darrel >Dawkins slam, just like the phone, "Take that, invade my privacy will you". Hardly a good analogy. IF you turn on a commercial network (and don't tape it so you can edit out the commercials), YOU are CHOOSING to accept the commercials. However, when some joker calls you up on the telephone, THEY are intruding. For someone who is just a little bit nasty in their postings, you should at least think things out before you start pissing. ...Larry Mazlack
shaprkg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Bob Shapiro) (11/27/85)
In article <629@sftig.UUCP> danny@sftig.UUCP (L.Rosler) writes: >> I hear several concerns: >> >> 1. How come I have to take this ? >> >> 2. How can I stop it ? > > I just received a letter from a company telling me that my phone > number could win me money. Inside, it said "simply" send in your phone > number to be eligible for the prizes. It didn't even tell what the > prizes were (maybe there aren't any). This is one way they get your > number and distribute it. This method is too obvious to catch > many people but the unaware will start getting calls. Why don't you send them the phone number of your least favorite person?
ron@brl-sem.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (11/28/85)
> > Hardly a good analogy. IF you turn on a commercial network (and don't tape it > so you can edit out the commercials), YOU are CHOOSING to accept the > commercials. However, when some joker calls you up on the telephone, > THEY are intruding. For someone who is just a little bit nasty in their > postings, you should at least think things out before you start pissing. > ...Larry Mazlack Yes, as Lilly Tomlin's Ernestine character would say... Let's turn to page vii of the directory and repeat after me. It is a crime under both state and federal laws for anyone to make obscene or harassing telephone calls. These laws have penalties of imprisonment and/or fine. - C&P Telephone White pages.
dave@cylixd.UUCP (Dave Kirby) (12/03/85)
>> I just received a letter from a company telling me that my phone >> number could win me money. Inside, it said "simply" send in your phone >> number to be eligible for the prizes...This is one way they get your >> number and distribute it... > Why don't you send them the phone number of your least favorite person? With my luck, he would win a new car.
wiebe@ut-ngp.UUCP (Anne Hill Wiebe) (12/05/85)
* In my area, (Austin, Texas), there are several new telephone services being test-marketed, two of which would be a partial answer to "how do you stop them". With one service, you can temporarily eliminate all calls except for those from a short list of desirable callers. With another of these, you provide the short list (or is it that you program them in?) and you get a special ring for calls from those from whom you really want calls. Both of these are cheap services, for the future anyway. Second solution: use an answering machine to screen your calls, pick it up when you hear a voice leaving a message but you do want to talk to that person. Drawback: not everyone calling you will like this, not everyone will actually leave a message. It does help if your message is very short so they don't have to listen long; my answering machine has a control for number of seconds for outgoing message. Not perfect solutions, I know. Anne Wiebe
mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU (12/05/85)
>>> I have the right to call any telephone number in the phone book. (That's >>> why their is a phone book). You have the right to hang up on me. >> >>Fine(as long as you define a "right" as anything you can get away with without >>fear of being arrested). So what's your problem? I have the right to tell you >>to go to hell and to slam the phone down, right? What's that? You demand that > > You sure do have the right to tell me to go to hell and slam the phone down. > And maybe after recess the teacher will give you milk and cookies. > God your going to have fun when you get to the second grade. How would you know? Judging from your spelling and punctuation, you haven't gotten that far yet. > What do you do when a commerical comes on tv during your favorite show? > Hmmmm lets see. (screams at tv) " What! how dare you invade my privacy > with ads for worthless shit I don't need. (grabs tv and does a Darrel > Dawkins slam, just like the phone, "Take that, invade my privacy will you". Well, even if I did watch commercial television other than by tape-delay, this is hardly an accurate analogy. The television does not invade my privacy because *I* choose when to turn it on and whether to subject myself to commercials. This is like comparing armed robbery to a voluntary contribution. >> I be "polite"? You want me to say "Sorry I took so long to answer the phone, >> but I was asleep. I'm afraid I don't want any of the worthless shit you're >> selling. I'm sorry I wasted your valuable time." Sorry, Bob, you can't have >> everything you want. > > Who said I can have everything I want? Nobody, but I assume that's what you're aiming for, since you're the one who started this argument by demanding that people be "polite" when your wife makes one of these annoying phone calls. >>> If you >>> don't want your privacy invaded, a.Dont have a phone b.Unplug it when you >>> don't use it. >> >> I see. You admit that it's an invasion, but say "Hey, that's your problem. > > I guess it's because I learned how to read. I never said it was an invasion > of privacy everybody else did. Amazing. Someone who's reading comprehension is so poor that he can't even understand what he himself has written. Or do you mean that when you wrote "If you don't want to have your privacy invaded", you were simply inserting a totally irrelevant comment into the middle of your message, and were talking about, say, peeping toms? If this is the case then why is unplugging the phone a solution? > I also conceded the point about a and b. > If your not to busy ranting and raving you would have seen it. I did see it, after I wrote my response. I afraid that some of us aren't precognitive, Bob, so we can only respond to messages we've already seen and have to wait for the ones that will come through later. By the way, why haven't you responded to this message yet? > (Yes when > I think I'm proven wrong, I concede the point. It is called 'learning'. > Try it sometime Scott. I have. Not everyone's wrong as often as you are, though, so we don't learn at as rapid a rate. Scott McEwan {ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!mcewan "Listen! You smell something?"