[net.consumers] Mail order company, Beware

ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) (01/12/86)

Summary of original article:  Jim Griggers reports on a friend who
ordered a VCR from New York Wholesalers on December 16, had his
credit card charged with a date of December 12, and still doesn't have
the VCR on January 9.

I have a few suggestions.  First: my understanding of applicable Federal
laws is that they must have the VCR in your hands by 30 days after they
receive your order (January 15, if I count correctly) or they must inform
you that they cannot fill the order and give you a way to cancel it
at no cost to you (not even postage).

Second, I would suggest writing a letter to the bank that holds your credit
card, with a copy to NY Wholesalers, pointing out the date discrepancy
and saying that this behavior is highly unethical and wondering if it
is illegal.

Third, if you don't get the merchandise, you don't have to pay the
bill.  Tell the bank you're not paying for stuff you didn't get,
explain why, and they'll extract the money from the (non-)seller.

Fourth, thanks for the warning.

joel@peora.UUCP (Joel Upchurch) (01/14/86)

>Summary of original article:  Jim Griggers reports on a friend who
>ordered a VCR from New York Wholesalers on December 16, had his
>credit card charged with a date of December 12, and still doesn't have
>the VCR on January 9.

	I don't understand what advantage there is to putting an
	earlier date on the charge slip. They are not going to get
	any money from the bank until the bank receives the charge,
	so what difference does it make what day the charge was dated?
	Unless they have a time machine or something. On my credit card
	statements I have two dates the transactions date and the
	posting date at the bank, what was the posting date?
-- 
     Joel Upchurch @ CONCURRENT Computer Corporation (A Perkin-Elmer Company)
     Southern Development Center
     2486 Sand Lake Road/ Orlando, Florida 32809/ (305)850-1031
     {decvax!ucf-cs, ihnp4!pesnta, vax135!petsd}!peora!joel

ayers@convexs.UUCP (01/16/86)

>			...First: my understanding of applicable Federal
>laws is that they must have the VCR in your hands by 30 days after they
>receive your order (January 15, if I count correctly) or they must inform
>you that they cannot fill the order and give you a way to cancel it
>at no cost to you (not even postage).

From a recent newspaper article:

It's ninety (90) days, then they must tell you when it is expected to ship,
and offer you the opportunity to cancel at no cost.  The same information/
offer must then be made every thirty (30) days thereafter.


	     ("There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact...")

					blues, II

larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (01/17/86)

> Summary of original article:  Jim Griggers reports on a friend who
> ordered a VCR from New York Wholesalers on December 16, had his
> credit card charged with a date of December 12, and still doesn't have
> the VCR on January 9.
> ...
> Second, I would suggest writing a letter to the bank that holds your credit
> card, with a copy to NY Wholesalers, pointing out the date discrepancy
> and saying that this behavior is highly unethical and wondering if it
> is illegal.

	One of Murphy's Laws is that letters of this nature have a tendency
to "have never been received", or to otherwise result in a dispute as to WHEN
the letter was received.
	You can stop this kind of BS by making certain that you send all letters
of this nature using certified mail, return receipt requested.

==>  Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York        <==
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ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) (01/21/86)

>>			...First: my understanding of applicable Federal
>>laws is that they must have the VCR in your hands by 30 days after they
>>receive your order (January 15, if I count correctly) or they must inform
>>you that they cannot fill the order and give you a way to cancel it
>>at no cost to you (not even postage).
>
>From a recent newspaper article:
>
>It's ninety (90) days, then they must tell you when it is expected to ship,
>and offer you the opportunity to cancel at no cost.  The same information/
>offer must then be made every thirty (30) days thereafter.

From page 92 of the January 1986 Popular Photography magazine:

"Mail order sales are governed by rules of the FTC, various State
laws, and US Postal laws.

For example, for orders made by mail:

1. The Seller must ship your order within 30 days of receiving it,
	unless the advertisement clearly states it'll take longer.

2. If it appears that your order will not be shipped when promised,
	the Seller must notify you in writing in advance of the promised
	date, giving a definite new date, if known, and offering you
	the opportunity to cancel the order with a refund or consent to
	a definite delayed shipping date or an indefinite delay.

3. The Seller's notice must contain a stamped self-addressed card or
	envelope with which you can indicate your preference.  If you
	don't respond to this notice, the Seller may assume you agree
	to the delay, but must ship your order within 30 days of the
	original shipping date promised or required, or the order
	will be automatically cancelled.  A prompt refund must be
	made when an order is cancelled.

4. Even if you've consented to an indefinite delay, you retain the right
	to cancel the order at any time before the item has been shipped.

5. If you choose to cancel an order, that has been paid for by check
	or money order, the Seller must mail you a refund within seven
	business days.  If you cancel an order for which you paid by
	credit card, the Seller must credit your account within one billing
	cycle following receipt of your request.  Store credits or
	vouchers in place of a refund are not acceptable.

6. In the event that the item you ordered is unavailable, the Seller
	may not send you substitute merchandise without your express consent.