king@glacier.ARPA (Robin King) (02/07/86)
Is anyone else out in netland bothered by the growing use of this liquid chemical stew? It seems that many otherwise decent restaurants/food vendors are presenting this garbage as a matter of course, as if no one will notice the difference or care! I'm not a religious health food "nut;" I just want *cream or milk* in my coffee, not: water hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated vegetable oil high fructose corn oil sodium caseinate di-potassium phosphate polysorbate 60 sodium stearoyl lactylate salt artificial flavor beta carotene (What IS this all this stuff?) I simply do not accept this cr*p. I'll do whatever it takes to make the folks come up with the real thing, even if I have to make an issue out of it. Unless this is what you *want*, that seems to be what is required. Once I made a counterboy read every ingredient listed out loud. He gave me milk after that. One b*tchy waitress proclaimed: "No Substitutions!" Well, we walked out of the place. Maybe they fed the omlettes to the dog. Even Round Table Pizza, of the so-called "last honest pizza" fame ( hyping themselves as homemade, natural style ) hands out these disgusting little packages. ( Gee, looks like milk, let's pretend it's fine.) That took about 15 minutes of hassle, including calling the manager. If you're in a cafeteria line, open up a milk carton and use what you need! I hope other people make it known that they care about what they're served; otherwise we've got no one else to blame. Don't succumb to any attempts to embarrass you... there are alot of jerks out there. - Robin King
figmo@lll-crg.ARpA (Lynn Gold) (02/07/86)
I'm glad somebody spoke out on this issue. I, for one, get an msg-type reaction to most non-dairy creamers. Does anybody out there know why non-dairy creamers are often the "creamer-of-choice" at many restaurants??????????? Thanks, --Lynn UUCP: ...lll-crg!figmo ARPA: Lynn%PANDA@SUMEX-AIM
jay@imagen.UUCP (Jay Jaeckel) (02/07/86)
> > Is anyone else out in netland bothered by the growing > use of this liquid chemical stew? It seems that many > otherwise decent restaurants/food vendors are presenting > this garbage as a matter of course, as if no one will notice > the difference or care! I'm not a religious health food "nut;" > I just want *cream or milk* in my coffee, not: > . . . > > I hope other people make it known that they care about what > they're served; otherwise we've got no one else to blame. Don't > succumb to any attempts to embarrass you... there are alot > of jerks out there. > > - Robin King > BRAVO, Robin! Similar question: Does anyone know anything about how widespread the use of Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) REALLY is? I've heard it said that restaurants using this must post a notice to this effect. I don't know if that's a Federal law or a state law in California or elsewhere (or just a bogus rumor). In any case, I've never seen such a notice on the menu or in the window or elsewhere at any restaurant -- including Chinese restaurants, which are allegedly the biggest users of MSG. (Anyone know if this is true?) Occasionally I ask a server if MSG is used. They never know. Please post responses to net.consumers, as that is the newsgroup I read (or mail directly to me). Thank you all. -- Jay Jaeckel ...{ucbvax,decwrl}!imagen!jay
ofut@gitpyr.UUCP (Jeff Offutt) (02/08/86)
Actually, there's a fairly easy and very graphic way to convince
most people that garbage isn't edible -- burn it. Yes, it's
flameable. So if the waiter gives you any flack for wanting real
milk, simply ask for a match. Open the chemical container. Light
the match. Pour the powder over the match and watch the
beautiful puff of flame!
But be careful, I've never seen anybody hurt like this, but I
guess you could burn your face or hair.
--
Jeff Offutt
School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!ofutroy@umnstat.UUCP (Roy St.Laurent) (02/09/86)
Robin King writes: > Is anyone else out in netland bothered by the growing > use of this liquid chemical stew? It seems that many > otherwise decent restaurants/food vendors are presenting > this garbage as a matter of course, as if no one will notice > the difference or care! I'm not a religious health food "nut;" > I just want *cream or milk* in my coffee.... > On a related note, many restaurants (especially the Mexican chain variety -- the one that comes to mind is Chi-Chi's) have started serving something they call "creamy sour dressing" instead of real sour cream. The stuff is horrible and who knows whats in it! I no longer patronize such places. --Roy St. Laurent
bzs@bucsd.UUCP (Barry Shein) (02/09/86)
I remember some comedian some years ago would read the 417 ingredients (ok, I exagerrate a little) off of a similar product, cool whip. The last two (he would pause dramatically) are artificial flavor, artificial color. He would then go on to comment how they threw together the first 415 ingredients and it didn't taste like it, it didn't look like it, probably some flavorless grey glop in a test-tube. Kinda funny, kinda sad too. -Barry Shein, Boston University
wjr@frog.UUCP (STella Calvert) (02/09/86)
In article <3895@glacier.ARPA> king@glacier.ARPA (Robin King) writes: > > Is anyone else out in netland bothered by the growing > use of this liquid chemical stew? No. It provides a useful opportunity to be politely unreasonable (if unreasonable is defined as not making waves, as it often IS defined.) > I simply do not accept this cr*p. I'll do whatever it takes > to make the folks come up with the real thing, even if I have > to make an issue out of it. The last time I had to "make the folks come up with the real thing," I called Atlanta once or twice a day for months. Maybe we should call corporate headquarters of chains that attempt to serve us quasi-milklike substances. But I have only once had the server refuse to bring me milk (and have only had to pay for a glass of milk TWICE (in YEARS of being a jerk about plastic cow)). Perhaps we could get the Dairy Association to commission a commercial where John Maschetti (the Federal Express fast-talker, spelling dubious) says, "I don't drink water, hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, high fructose corn oil, sodium caseinate, di-potassium phosphate, polysorbate 60, sodium stearoyl lactylate, salt, artificial flavor, and beta carotene." <super slow speed> "Could I have some cream, please?" If anyone from the Diary Council (or whatever it is) is on the net, you're welcome to the idea (but PLEASE air it in the Boston area so I can tape it!) Back a while, before the waitrii in my favorite restaurants caught on and brought it automagically, I could usually get cream, or at least milk, before I had finished laboriously mispronouncing the ingredients. BTW, when I yield to the inevitable and drink the stuff in wintertime I generally set myself up for a bad case of chapped lips. Does anyone else have similar problems. (I only yield to the inevitable if someone serves me the crap (I can think of a more appropriate word...) in their home, in which case politeness seems my only option.) STella Calvert Every man and every woman is a star. Guest on: ...!decvax!frog!wjr Life: Baltimore!AnnArbor!Smyrna!<LotsOfHitchhikingAndShortVisits> !SantaCruz!Berkeley!AnnArbor!Taxachusetts Future: ... (!L5!TheBelt!InterstellarSpace)
woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) (02/09/86)
> Is anyone else out in netland bothered by the growing > use of this liquid chemical stew? Yes, and I often choose my breakfast or coffee place based on this. For example, I never buy breakfast at Arby's any more even though I like their croissants, just because they serve chemical crap with the coffee. I now buy my coffee at McDonald's instead. Whatever else you can say about McD's, at least the still serve real half-and-half with the coffee. --Greg -- {ucbvax!hplabs | decvax!noao | mcvax!seismo | ihnp4!seismo} !hao!woods CSNET: woods@ncar.csnet ARPA: woods%ncar@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA "If the game is lost, we're all the same; No one left to place or take the blame"
ron@brl-smoke.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (02/09/86)
> I'm glad somebody spoke out on this issue. I, for one, get an > msg-type reaction to most non-dairy creamers. > > Does anybody out there know why non-dairy creamers are often the > "creamer-of-choice" at many restaurants??????????? > --Lynn The main advantage of artificial coffee enlighteners (other than price) is that since they are inert and hence you can leave them sit on the tables all day without refrigeration. Generally, I take my coffee black, unless it is really bad, at which point I'm almost always greated with inorganic substances to fix it up with. Ingredients: Water, Chalk dust, Salt.
faigin@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Daniel P Faigin) (02/10/86)
In her article, the author flames the use on non-dairy creamers
in Restaurants, and calls for the use of "the real stuff". I, for
one, wish they would stay with non-dairy creamers. Why? Let me
tell you...
My wife is violently allergic to beef. There are many people "out
there" who are allergic to milk. Using "dairy" creamers would
make the use of "cream in your coffee" impossible to them.
Remember, you can always (politely) ask for milk, you can't ask
for non-dairy creamer.
Additionally, dairy products left out on the table allday would
spoil and make you sick.
Lastly, what annoys me is that these "non-dairy" creamers are
not. One of the common ingredients is sodium casenate, which is a
beef protein. They may be lactose free, but they are not "parve"
(e.g., all vegetable).
If you have trouble with beef or milk, it is best not to accept
something unless it is Kosher Parve (look for K(subscript)P),
e.g., neither meat nor milk.
Daniel
--
UUCP: {akgua allegra ihnp4 hplabs sdcsvax trwrb cbosgd}!sdcrdcf!faigin
ARPA: sdcrdcf!faigin@UCLA-LOCUS.ARPA --or-- sdcrdcf!faigin@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU
W: SDC, 2525 Colorado MD 91-01; Santa Monica CA 90406; (213) 820-4111 x6393
H: 11743 Darlington Avenue #9; Los Angeles CA 90049; (213) 826-3357johansen@agrigene.UUCP (02/10/86)
> I'm glad somebody spoke out on this issue. I, for one, get an > msg-type reaction to most non-dairy creamers. > > Does anybody out there know why non-dairy creamers are often the > "creamer-of-choice" at many restaurants??????????? > Probably because they can be stored for years at room temperature with out any loss of quality (?).
tre@sdcarl.UUCP (Tom Erbe) (02/10/86)
In article <1237@lll-crg.ARpA> figmo@lll-crg.ARpA (Lynn Gold) writes: >Does anybody out there know why non-dairy creamers are often the >"creamer-of-choice" at many restaurants??????????? > Non-dairy creamers stay "fresh" forever with little refridger- ation (so does chalk dust and water). I always just order a glass of milk with my coffee to avoid being annoyed. -- thomas r. erbe {ucbvax,ihnp4,akgua,hplabs,sdcsvax}!sdcarl!tre
lauran@reed.UUCP (Laura Nepveu) (02/11/86)
>Does anybody out there know why non-dairy creamers are often the >"creamer-of-choice" at many restaurants??????????? I used to work in one such restaurant. This place was a fast food establishment and using the dry packets of non-dairy creamer solved many problems. We didn't have to have a messy bucket of ice out front to keep real cream or milk cold. We didn't have to pay the much higher cost for real cream or milk. The folks keeping kosher didn't have to worry about any non-kosher containers. The coffee service was self-serve. I however, never drank coffee there because I couldn't get real milk without paying sixty cents for only ten ounces. Many customers also complained, but to no avail. It is just too expensive for a fast food place to worry themselves about it. After all they want to sell you soda-pop and their name brand sandwich. They are not interested in selling you good coffee--no money in it. Laura
andrew@hammer.UUCP (Andrew Klossner) (02/11/86)
[]
"Actually, there's a fairly easy and very graphic way to
convince most people that garbage isn't edible -- burn it.
Yes, it's flameable. So if the waiter gives you any flack for
wanting real milk, simply ask for a match. Open the chemical
container. Light the match. Pour the powder over the match
and watch the beautiful puff of flame!"
This seems to rest on an unstated assumption that any edible powdered
food mustn't be flammable. I should think the opposite would be the
case. If I encountered, say, flour or cornstarch that couldn't be
ignited in this way, I would be pretty worried.
Actually, the powdered non-dairy creamers contain more real food
(mostly whey, which comes from milk) than liquid non-dairy creamers.
Now, if I could get a LIQUID creamer to burn ...
-=- Andrew Klossner (decvax!tektronix!tekecs!andrew) [UUCP]
(tekecs!andrew.tektronix@csnet-relay) [ARPA]larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (02/11/86)
> Does anybody out there know why non-dairy creamers are often the > "creamer-of-choice" at many restaurants??????????? Because the "cream" for coffe usually sits on tables or is otherwise exposed to room temperatures for extended periods of time. There is a considerable risk for spoilage were "real" milk or cream to be used, whereas non-dairy creamers are significantly more immune to spoilage due to lack of refrigeration. I suspect that restaurants would be less inclined to have complaints about spoiled milk or cream, as opposed to complaints merely about the use of a non-dairy creamer. ==> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York <== ==> UUCP {decvax|dual|rocksanne|rocksvax|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry <== ==> VOICE 716/741-9185 {rice|shell}!baylor!/ <== ==> FAX 716/741-9635 {G1, G2, G3 modes} duke!ethos!/ <== ==> seismo!/ <== ==> "Have you hugged your cat today?" ihnp4!/ <==
seb@mtgzy.UUCP (s.e.badian) (02/11/86)
Speaking of imitation sour cream, I got roped into one of those market surveys in a mall once and they had me try imitation sour cream against real sour cream. Somehow I don't think they followed my advice. The stuff didn't taste anything like real sour cream - which was quite evident since they gave me some real sour cream to compare it with. It was chalky whitish-yellow and tasted like nothing. It was kind of runny also. The real stuff was smooth and rich, the way sour cream should be. How they get people to eat the imitation garbage is beyond me! Sharon Badian ihnp4!mtgzz!mtgzy!seb
silber@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU (Jeffrey Silber) (02/11/86)
I have always made a habit of not drinking coffee anywhere that will not serve
real milk or cream with it. That does mean that I do not have coffee on air-
planes or in many restaurants, but it gives me a chance to voice my opinion.
Recently we replaced the white powder that we had in the office with real
(although ultra-pasteurized) half and half. The little creamers only cost about
2 cents each.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A million here, a million there ... they all add up.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey A. Silber silber@devvax.tn.cornell.edu
Business Manager JAS@CORNELLD
Center for Theory & Simulation {decvax,ihnp4,cmcl2,vax135}!cornell!devvax!silber
in Science & Engineering 265 Olin Hall
Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853tuba@ur-tut.UUCP (Jon Krueger) (02/12/86)
In article <237@umnstat.UUCP> roy@umnstat.UUCP (Roy St.Laurent) writes: >something they call "creamy sour dressing" instead of real sour cream. And if it says: you'd better believe it isn't: salad dressing mayonaisse breakfast spread jam or jelly cheese food, spread cheese breakfast drink orange juice family loaf bread liquid cleanser soap or detergent Any other contributions? I'm looking for product names that imply something that the real name would (legally) require the vendor to provide.
SofPasuk@imagen.UUCP (Munach Rvi'i) (02/12/86)
> > And of course, one cannot assume that alleged "non-dairy" creamers or whipped cream are really non-dairy. This is important for persons with allergies to dairy products or looking for a parve "creamer" or dessert topping ...
brown@aero.ARPA (Leonard Brown) (02/12/86)
In article <2618@sdcrdcf.UUCP> faigin@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Daniel P Faigin) writes: >Remember, you can always (politely) ask for milk, you can't ask >for non-dairy creamer. > >Additionally, dairy products left out on the table allday would >spoil and make you sick. > Most restaurants have low calorie sweetener and low or non-sodium "salt" available for the asking, if not on the table. I would prefer that they provide the "non-dairy" creamers for those want them, and put one of a) the small plastic containers of half-and-half in a bowl of ice, b) a small pitcher of cream, and maybe one of milk, on each table, c) (my favorite, common in Australia) small plastic containers of UHT milk in bowls at each table. The coffee shop where I go when I'm too tired to cook dinner has Sweet-'n-Low on the table along with the sugar packets, you can ask for Lite Salt, and before the new management took over there was a steel pitcher of half and half on each table. The busboys changed these regularly. Now they have a bowl of non-diary creamer on each table. Since I prefer milk in my coffee, I ask for a pitcher of milk and usually get it, once someone who knows the language of the week (the busboys change monthly, and never know English) translates my request to the busboy, who is in charge of getting coffee, tea, soft drinks etc. -- Leonard Brown: brown@aerospace.ARPA brown@aero.UUCP {seismo!hao|tektronix}!hplabs!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwrba!aero!brown
jbs@mit-eddie.UUCP (Jeff Siegal) (02/13/86)
In article <2618@sdcrdcf.UUCP> faigin@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Daniel P Faigin) writes: >In her article, the author flames the use on non-dairy creamers >in Restaurants, and calls for the use of "the real stuff". I, for >one, wish they would stay with non-dairy creamers. Why? Let me >tell you... > >My wife is violently allergic to beef. There are many people "out >there" who are allergic to milk. Using "dairy" creamers would >make the use of "cream in your coffee" impossible to them. >Remember, you can always (politely) ask for milk, you can't ask ------------- >for non-dairy creamer. ----------------------- Why not?
mazlack@ernie.berkeley.edu.BERKELEY.EDU (Lawrence J. &) (02/13/86)
> >Does anybody out there know why non-dairy creamers are often the >"creamer-of-choice" at many restaurants??????????? > Mostly for storage reasons. Unopened, it keeps a long time. Dairy creamers often spoil while waiting for use. Of course, if sterilized milk was used (as in Great Britain), this argument would disappear. But, it doesn't seem that sterilized milk is offered much here by the restaurent industry. ...Larry Mazlack mazlack@ernie.berkeley.edu
macrakis@harvard.UUCP (Stavros Macrakis) (02/13/86)
faigin@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Daniel P Faigin) writes: <2618@sdcrdcf.UUCP> > I...wish they would stay with non-dairy creamers. Why? ... My wife > is violently allergic to beef.... [M]any people...are allergic to > milk.... "[D]airy" creamers...make..."cream in your coffee" > impossible to them.... Lastly,... these "non-dairy" creamers [are > often] not "parve".... If you have trouble with beef or milk, it is > best not to accept something unless it is Kosher Parve... Surely we can do better than this! The FDA should step in: Are there beef-intolerant consumers? Replace beef with Textured Vegetable Protein. Are their fish-intolerant consumers? Replace fish with Imitation Fish Sticks. Are their dairy-intolerant consumers? Replace ice cream with Iced Carrageenan! And if you don't like the color of your TVP steak, you have only yourself to blame: everyone knows you can't eat TVP rare. -s PS Does anyone know when `cream' was first verbed into meaning `to add cream'?
suhina@kodak.UUCP (brian suhina) (02/13/86)
> In article <237@umnstat.UUCP> roy@umnstat.UUCP (Roy St.Laurent) writes: > >something they call "creamy sour dressing" instead of real sour cream. > > And if it says: you'd better believe it isn't: > salad dressing mayonaisse > breakfast spread jam or jelly > cheese food, spread cheese > breakfast drink orange juice > family loaf bread > liquid cleanser soap or detergent > > Any other contributions? I'm looking for product names that imply something > that the real name would (legally) require the vendor to provide. I've seen the phrase "cheese food" and always wondered what was the difference between cheese and "cheese food". Is it a govt. standard or regulation on the ingredients? Anyone up there in Wisconsin care to let the rest of us know? If the answer involves a long list of chemicals and/or preservatives that I can't pronounce or spell then just tell me what to avoid.
msc@saber.UUCP (Mark Callow) (02/13/86)
> Of course, if sterilized milk was used (as in Great Britain), this argument > would disappear. But, it doesn't seem that sterilized milk is offered > much here by the restaurent industry. > > ...Larry Mazlack mazlack@ernie.berkeley.edu Isn't pasteurising sterilizing? I was brought up in England and I think this is what we also call "skimmed milk". It has the fat removed and something else done to it because it tastes horrid. The memory of it stopped me trying low- and non-fat milk here. The main difference between milk here and in England is that in England it is not homogenized. Also as I recall, milk in England tends to spoil faster than milk here. Also cream in England is a dream. I wish I could get cream like that here. -- From the TARDIS of Mark Callow msc@saber.uucp, sun!saber!msc@decwrl.dec.com ...{ihnp4,sun}!saber!msc "Boards are long and hard and made of wood"
dsn@umcp-cs.UUCP (Dana S. Nau) (02/13/86)
In article <355@ur-tut.UUCP> tuba@ur-tut.UUCP (Jon Krueger) writes: >Any other contributions? I'm looking for product names that imply something >that the real name would (legally) require the vendor to provide. McDonald's uses "shake" instead of "milk shake"--and sells "Chocolatey" (or however they spell it) chip cookies. -- Dana S. Nau, Comp Sci Dept, U of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742 dsn@maryland seismo!umcp-cs!dsn (301) 454-7932
rcj@burl.UUCP (Curtis Jackson) (02/14/86)
In article <1952@hao.UUCP> woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) writes: >my coffee at McDonald's instead. Whatever else you can say about McD's, at >least the still serve real half-and-half with the coffee. > You're lucky. Unless a McD's is very close to a major distribution center, they handle all coffee, fresh goods, bread, etc. locally as their whims change. -- The MAD Programmer -- 919-228-3313 (Cornet 291) alias: Curtis Jackson ...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!rcj ...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!rcj
jao@valid.UUCP (John Oswalt) (02/14/86)
> Actually, there's a fairly easy and very graphic way to convince > most people that garbage isn't edible -- burn it. Yes, it's Are you saying that it it burns you can't eat it? While I don't like chemical creamers either, flammability is not the test. Many perfectly good and natural foods are flammable, e.g. alcohol, popcorn, tortillas, steak, hamburger, toast, flour, wheat germ, and sugar. -- John Oswalt (..!{hplabs,amd,pyramid,ihnp4}!pesnta!valid!jao)
reintom@rocky2.UUCP (Tom Reingold) (02/16/86)
> Isn't pasteurising sterilizing?
I think the difference is how long and how hot the process is.
Pasteurization is the shorter and cooler of the two processes.
Sterilization allows for no growth of any living organisms;
pasteurization allows for a little. The reason milk is generally
pasteurized is that sterilization destroys the taste of milk. This
discussion, however, proves that recently, customers taste does not
weigh at all against business peoples' profits, as sterilized milk
and non-milk are now tolerated by many people.
Tom Reingoldguy@slu70.UUCP (02/16/86)
In article <1931@saber.UUCP>, msc@saber.UUCP (Mark Callow) writes: > > Isn't pasteurising sterilizing? > Not completely. It's something of a compromise as heating milk high enough to completely sterilize it does a number on the flavor. I think what is being referred to as 'sterilized milk' is milk that has been irradiated by gamma radiation. I've heard that it can be stored unopened at room temperature almost indefinitely. I don't think it's available in this country although the FDA may be relaxing somewhat. I think that they are now permitting limited use of irradiation to kill trichinoid (sp?) worms in pork.
mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (02/17/86)
I personally don't mind the liquid containers in those little thimbles, but I don't like the taste of that powdery stuff. Also, for those of us trying to cut back on calories, I'd suspect the substitutes are less fattening than real cream (or even milk.) Anyone have calorie figures for the 4 cases: cream, milk, fake liquid, fake powder? Mark
susan@sftig.UUCP (S.Eisen) (02/17/86)
> > Is anyone else out in netland bothered by the growing > use of this liquid chemical stew? Definitely. We always order milk with coffee, and generally have no trouble getting it. However, if you eat in a kosher restaurant that serves only meat, you cannot get milk since meat and dairy products may not be served or eaten together. I can't really complain about the stuff, though, since my father is not really allowed to have dairy products and is glad there is this plastic stuff to drink. (!!) When in doubt, drink tea. :-) Susan
bzs@bu-cs.UUCP (Barry Shein) (02/17/86)
>Anyone have calorie figures >for the 4 cases: cream, milk, fake liquid, fake powder? This is from "Calories and Carbohydrates" by Barbara Kraus, it's hard to verify it's accuracy but I have found it very useful because it lists many, many name brands including things like McDonald's Big Macs (563 calories), frozen foods, drinks etc as well as generic foods: Cream: 1/2 and 1/2 1 fl oz 40 light 1T (.5 oz) 32 Milk: Whole 1 fl oz 18.7 (actually, 150/8oz) Skim 1 fl oz 11.2 (90/8) Human (no kidding!) 1 fl oz 22 Cream Substitute: (USDA) liquid 1T (.5 oz) 20 powder 1t (2g) 10 Carnation Coffee-mate 1t (2g) 11 Coffee-Rich frozen liq 1.5t (3g) 16 Pet non-dairy 1t (2g) 10 Basically, as far as weight reduction diets go, it seems insignificant unless you drink huge amounts of coffee (about 5-10 cal/cup assuming those quantities are representative of per-cup usage which I think they are meant to be.) In my opinion only the most stringent dieting could even benefit from removing the milk (and even the sugar, calorie considerations only here, about 15-20 calories) from their coffee, 3 cups a day would save maybe 100 calories at most. But somehow we have associated black coffee with dieting and hence non-black coffee as fattening (I suspect the old 'if it tastes good it must be fattening' theory.) Even the most superficial review of actual calorie counts reveal (I'm on my soapbox again) that eliminating all red-meat (or even all meat, tho red-meat is the main culprit) from a diet immediately makes it hard to get lotsa calories, even lean, broiled beef can be several hundred calories per serving. None of this applies to glassfuls of milk which can be rough on a diet, just the small amount most people put in their coffee (I doubt many were considering drinking glassfuls of coffee-mate anyhow.) -Barry Shein, Boston University
elb@mtx5d.UUCP (Ellen Bart) (02/17/86)
In Laura's posting she said one of the benefits of the packets of fake creamer is that people who keep kosher don't have to worry about the container the cream comes in. Sorry, but most (read: almost all I have seen) non-dairy powdered creamers and many liquid creamers are not kosher to begin with. (Many have gelatin among other things) By the way, many of the non-dairy creamers are NOT non-dairy. I.e. they contain lactose and/or other dairy products. So those of you who are lactose intolerent beware. Ellen Bart
tab@vax135.UUCP (Tracey Baker) (02/18/86)
As far as sterilized milk that can be stored unopened for long
periods of time - I have seen this (I think). It comes in boxes
(like the juice boxes), and has a very long shelf life unopened.
I took it on a camping trip once, and it was fine for cereal
and stuff like that, but by itself it tasted AWFUL!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Tracey Baker UUCP: {ihnp4,decvax,allegra}!vax135!tab
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Rm. 4G-637
Crawfords Corner Rd.
Holmdel, NJ 07733 Phone: (201) 949-1369
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are my own, and do
not reflect the views of my employer or of anyone else.
-----------------------------------------------------------------johansen@agrigene.UUCP (02/18/86)
> > Isn't pasteurising sterilizing? > > I think the difference is how long and how hot the process is. > Pasteurization is the shorter and cooler of the two processes. > Sterilization allows for no growth of any living organisms; > pasteurization allows for a little. The reason milk is generally > pasteurized is that sterilization destroys the taste of milk. This > discussion, however, proves that recently, customers taste does not > weigh at all against business peoples' profits, as sterilized milk > and non-milk are now tolerated by many people. > Actually, sterilization is a process that kills all microorganisms. If bacteria are introduced (eg from the air, hands etc) they will grow just fine in what was sterilized. Pasteurization does not kill all microorganisms, but has been found to kill most if not all harmful ones. Pasteurized milk will eventually spoil, sterilized milk will not (at least not due to growth of microbes) unless the container is openned. I think milk sterilized with gamma rays is available on the shelf in Canadian supermarkets and can be stored at room temperature. Pasteurized milk must be refrigerated.
msc@saber.UUCP (Mark Callow) (02/19/86)
> In article <1931@saber.UUCP>, msc@saber.UUCP (Mark Callow) writes: > > > > Isn't pasteurising sterilizing? > > > Not completely. It's something of a compromise as heating milk high enough to > completely sterilize it does a number on the flavor. Thanks for the answer. > I think what is being > referred to as 'sterilized milk' is milk that has been irradiated by gamma > radiation. Sterilized milk (aka skimmed milk in the UK) is sterilized. A vile number has been done on the flavour. It is not done with gamma rays. > I've heard that it can be stored unopened at room temperature almost > indefinitely. I don't think it's available in this country although the FDA > may be relaxing somewhat. This is "long life" milk. I don't know what they do with it. It's been around for so long that I don't think it's irradiated. -- From the TARDIS of Mark Callow msc@saber.uucp, sun!saber!msc@decwrl.dec.com ...{ihnp4,sun}!saber!msc "Boards are long and hard and made of wood"
figmo@lll-crg.ARpA (Lynn Gold) (02/19/86)
In article <156@mit-eddie.UUCP>, jbs@mit-eddie.UUCP (Jeff Siegal) writes: > In article <2618@sdcrdcf.UUCP> faigin@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Daniel P Faigin) writes: > >Remember, you can always (politely) ask for milk, you can't ask > ------------- > >for non-dairy creamer. > ----------------------- > > Why not? As someone who, at one time, has had to ask for margarine instead of butter in a restaurant, yes, you CAN ask for non-dairy foodstuffs and be perfectly polite. Restaurants are legally required to serve you butter unless they specifically tell you otherwise or you specifically ask for it. I don't know if they're required to keep margarine on hand, but I suspect most do. --Lynn ...lll-crg!figmo
pjc2@nvuxb.UUCP (P J Carstensen) (02/20/86)
The 1/2 fl. oz. containers of Real Milk Half & Half we get here have ".4% sodium citrate as a stabalizer"....but what I really loved was the "coffe whitener" they had at a conference I was at...
mikei@hammer.UUCP (Michael IsBell) (02/20/86)
There seems to be much concern about the possible harmful effects of using these non-dairy creamers in your coffee. Aren't the harmful effects of the coffee itself worthy of far greater concern? Personally, I wouldn't drink either. mle
sdjeff@cca.UUCP (Jeffrey Collier) (02/20/86)
Please. I know I have a 'n' key, but haven't we heard enough? I'll post a recipe for "blackened redfish" if everyone stops. Promise. (I'll post it anyway, but please?) jeff ( ...!decvax!cca!sdjeff )
bjb@nvzg2.UUCP (Bernie Brown) (02/20/86)
[EAT THAT YOU TURKEY] There's been the question asked: Is anyone else out in netland bothered by the growing use of this liquid chemical stew? To which the frequent reply is: Definitely. We always order milk with coffee, and generally have no trouble getting it. And Susan added: When in doubt, drink tea. :-) But I must ask: Why be in doubt? Why not drink the coffee black? Why would anyone want to dilute her/his caffeine? :-) Just another caffeine addict. 'HEY! WHO finished the coffee and didn't make any more' -- Keep the Dream Alive (in memory of the Challenger 7) Bernie Brown (AT&T-Information Systems, Altamonte Springs, FL) UUCP ...!ihnp4!codas!nvzg2!bjb AT&T (305)869-2239 This is my commentary not AT&T's. I don't know, nor care, if they care anyway.
wiebe@ut-ngp.UUCP (Anne Hill Wiebe) (02/27/86)
what about Safeway's "patty mix" for hamburger with soymeal extenders added? Anne Hill Wiebe (wiebe@ngp.UTEXAS.EDU, or !ihnp4!ut-ngp!wiebe, or !allegra!ut-ngp!wiebe)