kolling@decwrl.DEC.COM (Karen Kolling) (02/04/86)
> I used to be Sears' satisfied customer in Cal. and Michigan. Out here > in New Jersey, people at Sears tend to be "lazy" and "sleezy", car services > are unacceptably slow and you have to wait with your car quite often.. > .....If I am wrong, I'll try to read Sears ads on the paper again. I think Sears has gone into the bit bucket. They used to be a dependable source of acceptable, low-priced merchandise with short waits (5 mins max) at their catalog counters when I lived in Massachusetts. Now, in Calif., let me tell you about fitted sheets too small to fit the size bed they're supposed to fit, pillows of synthetic materials that reek to high heaven of petroleum by-products (or something), 40 minute plus waits and salespeople who don't give a %^$*&, and they have a really bad rep for car repairs locally.
is15bbe@gt-oscar.UUCP (GT1295B MCCORMICK) (02/05/86)
In article <895@decwrl.DEC.COM>, kolling@decwrl.DEC.COM (Karen Kolling) writes: >> I used to be Sears' satisfied customer in Cal. and Michigan. Out here >> in New Jersey, people at Sears tend to be "lazy" and "sleezy", car services >> are unacceptably slow and you have to wait with your car quite often.. >> .....If I am wrong, I'll try to read Sears ads on the paper again. > supposed to fit, pillows of synthetic materials that reek to high heaven > of petroleum by-products (or something), 40 minute plus waits and salespeople > who don't give a %^$*&, and they have a really bad rep for car repairs locally. I found, to my pleasant surprise, that Sears in Atlanta has polite salespeople, reasonable prices, and good service. I had sworn off Sears after moving from Ohio, but no am a loyal customer. GT1295B William B. McCormick Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gt-oscar!is15bbe
mdf@osu-eddie.UUCP (Mark D. Freeman) (02/05/86)
This story takes place in 1977. My father at that time had been the proud owner of a well worn Sears credit card for about 15 years. He had rebuilt major portions of two homes on that credit card and bought more tools and appliances than most people would consider reasonable. We estimate that he put over $30,000 on this card over the 15 years. And, as president of a labor union local in NYC, never had much trouble meeting the bills (we weren't any higher than middle-middle class, but we paid our bills). One Saturday, our water heater decides to become a sprinkler system. We shut off the water and run down to our local Sears store. We pick out a water heater, and the old man throws his trusty plastic on the counter. The POS machine rejects it. They call the credit department. It seems that the payment on the most recent bill is almost a week overdue. [NOTE: Completely clean record up to this point.] My father shows them his checkbook register which shows the ~$150.00 bill as having been paid in full several days before. The credit department says that until they see the check, he can't charge anything. To make a too long story somewhat shorter... After calling the on-duty head of credit at the Chicago home office, they still wouldn't let my father buy the $300.00 water heater. After spending over $30,000 there without missing a payment. He has not been in a Sears store since. He now runs a home repair business and probably buys $30,000 per year in stuff that they sell, but he buys it elsewhere. They showed him! -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark D. Freeman Guest account at The Ohio State University StrongPoint Systems, Inc. mdf@osu-eddie.UUCP 209 Olentangy Street Mdf@Ohio-State.CSNET Columbus, OH 43202-2340 Mdf%Ohio-State@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA !cbosgd!osu-eddie!mdf I disclaim even my very existance. Acceptance without proof is the fundamental characteristic of Western religion, Rejection without proof is the fundamental characteristic of Western science. -- Gary Zukav from "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ibyf@ihlpa.UUCP (Scott) (02/05/86)
> > I used to be Sears' satisfied customer in Cal. and Michigan. Out here > > in New Jersey, people at Sears tend to be "lazy" and "sleezy", car services > > are unacceptably slow and you have to wait with your car quite often.. > Your not wrong! > I think Sears has gone into the bit bucket. They used to be a dependable > ............... > who don't give a %^$*&, and they have a really bad rep for car repairs locally. Yes both in Oklahoma city and here in Aurora (Illinois) I have become totally dissatisfied with Sears. I took my truck in to get some tires put on. I told them it wasn't in their "auto" lot and they said "no problem" they also said it would be about an hour and a half. No biggie, it was saturday and they were busy. So I go shop around the mall, have lunch, etc. and come back in an hour and 15 figureing to wait about 15-20 minutes for them to finish. WRONG! They hadn't even moved the truck yet. So I go in and raise hell with the manager saying things like this is a hell of a way to treat someone who just spent $400.00 at this store. So he runs right out, gets the truck and pulls it in. It sits there for 45 minutes before they even look at it, then it takes them 1 hour and 20 minutes to mount 4 tires. so I pay with my credit card and tell the manager what I think of him, his shop and the entire chain and then snapped my card in half right in front of him. I've resolved to never go back for anything. when they say theres more for your life, they mean more aggrivation, more hassle, more frustration more etc..etc.....etc.......... Addison ihnp4!ihlpa!ibyf My brother? I always thought of him as mom and dad's science project.
tom@pedsgo.UUCP (Tom Gillispie) (02/06/86)
Organization : Concurrent Computer Corp. (a P-E subsidiary), Tinton Falls, NJ Keywords: It really is interesting to see how different Sears stores vary in quality. I have no negative or positive experiences to post about Sears, but after reading the n-th posting about Sears, I wondered if Sears has access to this net. A small naive voice inside my head keeps saying "If only Sears could see this, they would want to *DO* something!" Are there any loyal net.consumers readers in Chicagoland that know where to forward copies of the past postings, and that have access to those posting? DISCLAIMER: This is my optimism speaking, not me!
jay@imagen.UUCP (Jay Jaeckel) (02/07/86)
> > It really is interesting to see how different Sears stores vary in quality. > I have no negative or positive experiences to post about Sears, but after > reading the n-th posting about Sears, I wondered if Sears has access to > this net. A small naive voice inside my head keeps saying "If only Sears > could see this, they would want to *DO* something!" Are there any loyal > net.consumers readers in Chicagoland that know where to forward copies of > the past postings, and that have access to those posting? > > DISCLAIMER: This is my optimism speaking, not me! A small naive voice inside my head keeps saying "If only Sears could see this, the SURE MIGHT DO something: They'd sue the ass off of everyone who posted dirt on them!" I went to the library a few weeks ago and read a little bit on libel laws (having had a previous employer whom I have occasionally considered blowing the whistle on). Turn out, apparently, that disclosing dirt about someone can get you into deep shit, and that the truth of your dirt (even if you can PROVE it, which you often can't) is at best usually a weak defense which MIGHT get the court to reduce the damages awarded against you. So: question to all posters of negative (but VALUABLE, I think) consumer information on companies/products/services you have dealt with: Aren't you awfully worried that the wrong predatory lawyers are going to see your postings, and crucify you??? Another question: Is there any fairness or honesty at all in the libel laws, if I read them right? DISCLAIMER: This is my {pessimism|cynicism|realism|all-of-these} speaking. Another Disclaimer: The above pessimism|cynicism|realism|opinions are my own. -- Jay Jaeckel ...{ucbvax,decwrl}!imagen!jay
earlw@pesnta.UUCP (Earl Wallace) (02/08/86)
In article <243@imagen.UUCP> jay@imagen.UUCP (Jay Jaeckel) writes: >... >Aren't you awfully worried that the wrong predatory lawyers are going to >see your postings, and crucify you??? Another question: Is there any >fairness or honesty at all in the libel laws, if I read them right? > -- Jay Jaeckel > ...{ucbvax,decwrl}!imagen!jay If I tell my friends not to take their car to the Smuck European dealership because they do lousy work and charge you a lot, is that libel? Is it only libel if I cause Smuck European to lose business because of my remarks? Can I say anything I want as long as I preface it with "In my opinion"? When do we start to lose our of freedom of speech?
bzs@bucsd.UUCP (Barry Shein) (02/09/86)
Re: is it libel to post negative comments about a product to the net? I have no idea, but I sure hope not. Of course if some lawyer from some big corporation decided to take you on I guess you could be 'dead right' as they say. The funny thing is that a very similar question circulated recently in net.invest about whether or not posting info that might affect someone's stock purchases to the net may be construed as insider trading. A few people seemed quite adamant that posting to the net did not constitute public disclosure so, yes, it could be considered inside info and thus make basing an investment decision illegal. I don't know the intricacies of what is public and what is not and how public a libelous statement has to be to be public (or how much wood can a woodchuck chuck...) but we sure seem to live in a funny system that none of us understand at all, too bad I guess. I wonder who it *is* for???? -Barry Shein, Boston University
edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall) (02/10/86)
In article <243@imagen.UUCP> jay@imagen.UUCP (Jay Jaeckel) writes: >> >> It really is interesting to see how different Sears stores vary in quality. >> I have no negative or positive experiences to post about Sears, but after >> reading the n-th posting about Sears, I wondered if Sears has access to >> this net. A small naive voice inside my head keeps saying "If only Sears >> could see this, they would want to *DO* something!" Are there any loyal >> net.consumers readers in Chicagoland that know where to forward copies of >> the past postings, and that have access to those posting? >> >> DISCLAIMER: This is my optimism speaking, not me! > >A small naive voice inside my head keeps saying "If only Sears could see >this, the SURE MIGHT DO something: They'd sue the ass off of everyone >who posted dirt on them!" > I went to the library a few weeks ago and read a little bit on libel >laws (having had a previous employer whom I have occasionally considered >blowing the whistle on). Turn out, apparently, that disclosing dirt about >someone can get you into deep shit, and that the truth of your dirt (even >if you can PROVE it, which you often can't) is at best usually a weak >defense which MIGHT get the court to reduce the damages awarded against you. > . . . . > -- Jay Jaeckel > ...{ucbvax,decwrl}!imagen!jay I believe that you are correct about libel law AS IT APPLIES TO PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS. It is an awful lot harder to libel someone who qualifies as a ``public figure'' (and much of the legal battle in large libel cases goes into proving or disproving this distinction). How do you think the National Enquirer gets away with ``Liz Had Qaddafi's Baby'' headlines? Now, someone with more legal background than me should certainly confirm or deny this, but I believe that Sears would be considered along the same lines as a public fugure, for purposes of determining libel. And in the case of libeling a public figure not only is truth a defense, but actual malice has to be proven. As for blowing the whistle your former employer--see a lawyer. Find out just what standard of libel applies here. -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall P.S. Consider just how long a magazine like Consumer Reports would last if such a strict interpretation of libel were applied to industry!
ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) (02/10/86)
Re: is it libel to post negative comments about a product to the net? I always thought that truth was an absolute defense against libel. Then again, it doesn't matter. If some huge corporation sues you for libel, you're going to wind up bankrupt even if you win.
ibyf@ihlpa.UUCP (Scott) (02/11/86)
> A small naive voice inside my head keeps saying "If only Sears could see > this, the SURE MIGHT DO something: They'd sue the ass off of everyone > who posted dirt on them!" > I went to the library a few weeks ago and read a little bit on libel > laws (having had a previous employer whom I have occasionally considered > blowing the whistle on). Turn out, apparently, that disclosing dirt about > .......... , if I read them right? > -- Jay Jaeckel I can't believe you read them right. (no offense) I heard that "popularity" is a factor in these cases. In other words, the mere fact that you are so much in the public eye makes you fair game, true or not true. That's how the Enquirer and such can get away with the stuff they print. (citing Carol Burnette case). Also, even if the above is false, when relaying an account of something that happened, (if it did happen) as long as it is factual, the parties involved can not prosecute. (Freedom of the press, Freedom of speech) Lastly, if worst came to worst, you could lie (UMMM!) F'rinstance, I post article 'x'. I don't use the possesive anywhere. (like I did this or I did that). Now somebody comes to sue me. I say well, John told me about it, I was just telling Billy. So they go to John, he says, "well hey, I just told Dave, but Ralph told me" etc. etc. And, I must be found guilty by a jury of my peirs(sp?) right? Well, nobody I know would convict me after I told them how so-and-so screwed me out of this-or-that. Addison ihnp4!ihlpa!ibyf My brother? I always thought of him as mom and dad's science project.
mcb@styx.UUCP (Michael C. Berch) (02/11/86)
In article <243@imagen.UUCP> jay@imagen.UUCP writes: > . . . > I went to the library a few weeks ago and read a little bit on libel > laws (having had a previous employer whom I have occasionally considered > blowing the whistle on). Turn out, apparently, that disclosing dirt about > someone can get you into deep shit, and that the truth of your dirt (even > if you can PROVE it, which you often can't) is at best usually a weak > defense which MIGHT get the court to reduce the damages awarded against you. > > So: question to all posters of negative (but VALUABLE, I think) > consumer information on companies/products/services you have dealt with: > Aren't you awfully worried that the wrong predatory lawyers are going to > see your postings, and crucify you??? Another question: Is there any > fairness or honesty at all in the libel laws, if I read them right? There are two sets of tort (civil wrong) laws involved here. The first is defamation (specifically libel, which is written defamation). Please note the following: 1. Truth is a complete defense to libel. Period. 2. The burden of proof as to the truth or falsity of the utterance is solely with the plaintiff. 3. It is extremely difficult for plaintiffs who are not natural persons (human individuals) to win libel judgments. 4. There are various other defenses to libel, including absolute and qualified privileges. In a consumer issues forum like net.consumers, truthful information about the practices of various firms (or even individual merchants), and even erroneous material, if not maliciously posted, would likely be protected. Opinion of any kind would also be protected, whether or not identified as such, as long as it did not maliciously disguise itself as "fact". The second set of laws deal with business torts, which go under different names in different states, including "trade libel", "interference with economic advantage", "interference with contract", etc. These are designed to prevent malicious tampering with business relationships. "Trade libel" usually refers to the false denigration of the quality of another's goods, e.g., if widget-maker X says that widget-maker Y's widgets are made from dead babies, or suchlike. "Interference with contract" might come into play if a competitor called a bunch of dealers and libelled their mutual distributor. Anyway, my conclusion is that it's OK to name names here in net.consumers; I'll continue to do so and hope others do as well. Michael C. Berch UUCP: {akgua,allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,dual,ihnp4,sun}!idi!styx!mcb ARPA: mcb@lll-tis-b.ARPA
ibyf@ihlpa.UUCP (Scott) (02/12/86)
> Re: is it libel to post negative comments about a product to the net? > Well, if this isn't a forum for people to express ideas, opinions, and exchange information, what is it? Think about it for a minute and try to fit any article you've read into a catagory other than above. If it isn't for this purpose and people can be sued for what they post, then we best drop the net all together. Besides, didn't somebody in net.legal find out that postings were inadmissable as court eveidence? Addison ihnp4!ihlpa!ibyf My brother? I always thought of him as mom and dad's science project.
jane@ames.UUCP (Jane Medefesser) (02/12/86)
*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR HORROR STORY *** > > Sear's turned me down for a REGULAR sear's charge card because of something > that happened aLONG time ago and put on my local C.B. file. > I guess they didn't consider my credit rating at several major U.S. banks and > several local department stores (all of which were on the application). > > Should I bitch about this or should I just blow Sear's off forever as a > source of products or both?????? Oh, I resisted entering this discussion, but now I just HAVE to... I worked at Sears when I was in college. (around the late 1970's, early 80's) I worked at two DIFFERENT stores in two DIFFERENT sales regions, so I became pretty familiar with the COMPANY's habits as well as individual store management traits. More often than I care to think about I saw cases where credit accounts suddenly and mysteriously were belched out of the company's central computer for obscure and hidden reasons. I can't tell you how often this happened to people who had had their accounts for well over 10 or 15 years, and had NO credit problems. These 'Silicon Valley' executive-type cardholders often went through months of frustrating gyrations trying to re-establish the account, usually having to prove that they were not guilty of whatever sin the credit department accused them of. (I think the majority of the people I came accross were not actually at any fault. The credit department had a habit of 'loosing payments' or 'not posting payments on time'.) I seemed to me that there was this "black hole" that some accounts fell into. If yours was one, GOOD LUCK. I resolved while I was working there that at NO TIME IN MY LIFE would I EVER open a Sears account. I worked too hard establishing my credit to allow those bozo's to ruin it with one missplaced payment. To this date, I have JC Penneys (where, incidentally, I ALSO worked for a while), Wards, Visa, Macy's, etc., etc., but NO SEARS!! That's not to say I don't SHOP there, I just don't CHARGE there. One more note - Sears has changed over the years, it's true. I am a FIRM believer that the customer service quality of ANY COMPANY is directly related to the satisfaction of the employees. Sears does not treat it's lower level employees very well. (I imagine that management is treated pretty fairly). Sears sales people are GENERALLY (there are of course individual exceptions) 1.) Underpaid 2.) Under benifited 3.) Inexperienced 4.) Poorly trained 5.) Seldom rewarded 6.) Looked down upon by superiors as 'low life'. A Company being run by disgruntled or under trained employees is going to reflect this attitude on the sales floor. NOW, that's not to say that the quality of their GOODS has changed. For instance, I think the best tools you can buy are Sears Craftsman, and you really can't buy better large appliances for the money. But don't ask for a whole lot of assistance when shopping for small goods. (They tend to be pretty helpfull when you're buying something big.) AND NOW - THE DISCLAIMERS!!!!!! My opinions in NO WAY reflect the opinions or attitudes of NASA , Informatics General Corporation or Sterling Software. The above *OPINIONS* are my own and should not be implied to any other source. Please send all spelling and grammar flames to /dev/null. I haven't had my quota of coffee yet this morning. Besides, I think you all understand what I am trying to say. Jane Medefesser Informatics General Corp. NASA Ames Research Center Moffett Field, California {..dual,riacs,hplabs,ihnp4}!ames!jane
dnc@bonnie.UUCP (Don Corey) (02/12/86)
> ... "If only Sears could see > this, the SURE MIGHT DO something: They'd sue the ass off of everyone > who posted dirt on them!" > I went to the library a few weeks ago and read a little bit on libel > laws ... > Turn out, apparently, that disclosing dirt about > someone can get you into deep shit, and that the truth of your dirt (even > if you can PROVE it, which you often can't) is at best usually a weak > defense which MIGHT get the court to reduce the damages awarded against you. ... > Aren't you awfully worried that the wrong predatory lawyers are going to > see your postings, and crucify you??? Another question: Is there any > fairness or honesty at all in the libel laws, if I read them right? > > -- Jay Jaeckel > ...{ucbvax,decwrl}!imagen!jay We once failed a credit report becuase Sears had filed with TRW that we owed them money for two refrigerators. We never bought any refrigerators from Sears. When we tried to get Sears to correct this report, they said that their records did not go back that far and we would have to prove we did not owe them for the two refrigerators. We finally fought with them long enough and they fixed the report. We asked a lawyer if we could sue Sears for libel. He said that we would win only if we could show that the entry on the credit rating had cost us a substantial loss of money. -- Don Corey AT&T Bell Laboratories WH 2A-140 (201) 386-2349 ihnp4!bonnie!dnc
king@kestrel.ARPA (Dick King) (02/14/86)
From: jay@imagen.UUCP (Jay Jaeckel)
Newsgroups: net.consumers
Date: 7 Feb 86 18:28:54 GMT
A small naive voice inside my head keeps saying "If only Sears could see
this, the SURE MIGHT DO something: They'd sue the ass off of everyone
who posted dirt on them!"
I went to the library a few weeks ago and read a little bit on libel
laws (having had a previous employer whom I have occasionally considered
blowing the whistle on). Turn out, apparently, that disclosing dirt about
someone can get you into deep shit, and that the truth of your dirt (even
if you can PROVE it, which you often can't) is at best usually a weak
defense which MIGHT get the court to reduce the damages awarded against you.
So: question to all posters of negative (but VALUABLE, I think)
consumer information on companies/products/services you have dealt with:
Aren't you awfully worried that the wrong predatory lawyers are going to
see your postings, and crucify you??? Another question: Is there any
fairness or honesty at all in the libel laws, if I read them right?
Seems likely that Sears (for example) would have trouble proving the
identity of the alledged libeler in the case of netmail. I wouldn't
worry about that, for that reason alone!
-- Jay Jaeckel
...{ucbvax,decwrl}!imagen!jay
-dicksuze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) (02/21/86)
> Burnette case). Also, even if the above is false, when relaying an account > of something that happened, (if it did happen) as long as it is factual, the > parties involved can not prosecute. (Freedom of the press, Freedom of speech) > Lastly, if worst came to worst, you could lie (UMMM!) F'rinstance, I post Cannot PROSECUTE? I don't think you're right there, libel is civil, not criminal, so "procesute" is the wrong term to begin with. Certainly one can sue, but if what was stated was true, I don't think it can be held as libel, even if it was stated derogatorily. -- Suzanne Barnett-Scott uucp: ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division 14151 N 76th Street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260 (602) 998-4800
slb@drutx.UUCP (Sue Brezden) (02/24/86)
I'm all for Sears. And here's the reason:
After my divorce, I found it impossible to get credit. This was
in spite of the previous $5000+ limit my ex-husband and I had on
Master Card. Regardless, I was a non-person as far as credit went.
(This was back in 1975. Hopefully, things are better for women
today.)
Sears, though, would give me a card. Using it for small amounts,
and paying quickly, I built up enough credit rating to get a Visa,
and finally a Master Card of my own. (For revenge only, the last
one. Visa was much nicer, it took me a year longer to get a Master
Card in spite of the fact that we had that good credit before the
divorce--I felt I *had* to get that Master Card just to show myself
that I could do it.)
I'm still grateful to Sears for being there when no other card would
touch me, and when my situation looked less than rosy. Several
Christmases would have seen the children with no presents without it.
Penny's never did take me--and I wouldn't even try them now. Screw 'em.
Penny's clothes are better (for children, especially), but Sears'
tools can't be beat. And around the holidays you can often order
something by catalog from them that is impossible to find in
the stores. In ten years, I've never had a mess-up on my bill.
So it's all in the experiences you happen to have had. I would still
counsel someone just starting out in the wonderful world of credit
to go Sears first.
--
Sue Brezden
ihnp4!drutx!slb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nirvana? That's a place where the powers that be and
their friends hang out.
--Zonker Harris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~mdf@osu-eddie.UUCP (Mark D. Freeman) (02/25/86)
Summary: In <665@drutx.UUCP> slb@drutx.UUCP (Sue Brezden) writes: > >I'm all for Sears. And here's the reason: > >After my divorce, I found it impossible to get credit. >(This was back in 1975. Hopefully, things are better for women >today.) > >Sears, though, would give me a card. > >Penny's never did take me--and I wouldn't even try them now. Screw 'em. > >So it's all in the experiences you happen to have had. I would still >counsel someone just starting out in the wonderful world of credit >to go Sears first. In 1980-1981 I was trying to establish credit and Sears turned me down 3 times. Pennys took me on the first try. Go figure! -- < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < <> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark D. Freeman mdf@osu-eddie.uucp StrongPoint Systems, Inc. mdf@osu-eddie.arpa Guest account at The Ohio State University !cbosgd!osu-eddie!mdf I speak, therefore I disclaim everything I say. < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < <> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
tim@oucs.UUCP (Tim Thompson) (02/26/86)
========================= Sue Brezden: > >I'm all for Sears. And here's the reason: > >After my divorce, I found it impossible to get credit. > >(This was back in 1975. Hopefully, things are better for women > >today.) > >Sears, though, would give me a card. > >Penny's never did take me--and I wouldn't even try them now. Screw 'em. > >So it's all in the experiences you happen to have had. I would still > >counsel someone just starting out in the wonderful world of credit > >to go Sears first. ========================= Mark Freeman: > In 1980-1981 I was trying to establish credit and Sears turned me down 3 times. > Pennys took me on the first try. Go figure! ========================= Tim Thompson: (that's me, folks!) Figure this: I'm still a college student and have my Sears, Penney's, Lazarus, and a few other cards. I'm making about $137 every other week, and I've got cards coming out my nose. NOW, my wife, who's supporting us right now by teaching at a junior high school, has been turned down THREE TIMES for a Sears card, and we're still now sure why. Can anyone explain that, other than Sears being kind of stupid for giving their card to someone who can't afford it, and not giving it to someone who can?
holloway@drivax.UUCP (Bruce Holloway) (03/03/86)
>Tim Thompson: (that's me, folks!) > Figure this: I'm still a college student and have my Sears, Penney's, Lazarus, >and a few other cards. I'm making about $137 every other week, and I've got >cards coming out my nose. NOW, my wife, who's supporting us right now by >teaching at a junior high school, has been turned down THREE TIMES for a Sears >card, and we're still now sure why. Can anyone explain that, other than >Sears being kind of stupid for giving their card to someone who can't afford >it, and not giving it to someone who can? I've tried for a Visa card four times from Bank of America after we moved out here to California from new Hampshire, and I've been turned down each time. And I have a car loan with them, a Penney's card, and a Sear's card. My wife, who doesn't work, and has no income, got a letter saying that her credit was 'preapproved', and that all she had to do was return a postage paid envelope, and they'd send her some cards. She did. Wish I had such good credit. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Whatever I write are not the opinions or policies of Digital Research, Inc.,| |and probably won't be in the foreseeable future. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Bruce Holloway ....!ucbvax!hplabs!amdahl!drivax!holloway (I'm not THAT Bruce Holloway, I'm the other one.)
king@kestrel.ARPA (Dick King) (03/03/86)
From: slb@drutx.UUCP (Sue Brezden) Newsgroups: net.consumers Date: 24 Feb 86 04:19:43 GMT I'm all for Sears. And here's the reason: After my divorce, I found it impossible to get credit. This was in spite of the previous $5000+ limit my ex-husband and I had on Master Card. Regardless, I was a non-person as far as credit went. (This was back in 1975. Hopefully, things are better for women today.) Sears, though, would give me a card. Using it for small amounts, and paying quickly, I built up enough credit rating to get a Visa, and finally a Master Card of my own. You don't have to USE a card to build up a credit rating. You only have to HAVE one. It only has to be one. There just has to be some little stub of a credit file so the credit granting agency doesn't think the identity is fabricated. The gop that periodically makes the rounds that it is a good idea for someone just starting out to take out a significant loan and pay it off to build up a rating is false. I have spoken at length with credit granters ranging from mortgage companies down to oil company credit departments. -dick
mom@sfmag.UUCP (M.Modig) (03/04/86)
> > I'm all for Sears. And here's the reason: > > After my divorce, I found it impossible to get credit. This was > in spite of the previous $5000+ limit my ex-husband and I had on > Master Card. Regardless, I was a non-person as far as credit went. > > (This was back in 1975. Hopefully, things are better for women > today.) > > Sears, though, would give me a card. Using it for small amounts,.. I've tried four times to get a Sears card, starting when I entered grad school. The last was after I had graduated and started working. All I've gotten was an impressive number of pseudo-Ginsu knives. Visa, American Express, Bamberger's, and most of the major oil companies all love me, but Sears still won't give me a card. After the last try, I've decided that was enough. I wouldn't take a Sears card now if they got down on their knees, kissed my toes, and begged me. A deprived child, (sniff!) Mark Modig ihnp4!sfmag!mom :-)
thomasm@orca.UUCP (Thomas Malone) (03/06/86)
In general it ticks me off when companies mail you an "invitation" to open an account, but want you to fill out an application. I know it would cost them $$$ to check before sending this garbage out, but all I wish to do is sign on the dotted line and send the SOB back to them. If they run a credit check afterwards fine, but I refuse to fill out an application when they send this propaganda to my home. ---Thomas
thomasm@orca.UUCP (Thomas Malone) (03/06/86)
I too have had Sears raise my ire involving charge accounts. Early in my senior year at college I applied for a charge card from them. At that time I had a bit of credit, but not a lot. Needless to say, they turned down my application, which didn't disturb me greatly. Four months later, when nearly graduated. They sent me a note indicating that my new account was pre-approved and waiting for me; sign on the dotted line and send back the response form. This of course made me irate since this screwed up company had recently turned me down. I wrote them, enclosing their shredded application, and stopped shopping at Sears. Every 6 months afterwards for the next 4 years they sent me an "invitation" to open an account, except that I had to fill out an application, which I in turn disposed of. Finally, I got tired of these and wrote them another letter indicating three things: 1) that I did not wish to see any more of their "invitations" and enclosed the torn up application, 2) why I felt the way I did, and 3) told them that I had no intention of filling out an application. To quote directly: "Instead of wasting my time with a @#!* application, do your homework and either send a @#!* card if I qualify or send nothing." They responded by sending the charge card. ---Thomas
robert@unlv.UUCP (Robert Cray) (03/08/86)
In article <873@sfmag.UUCP> mom@sfmag.UUCP (M.Modig) writes: [] > >I've tried four times to get a Sears card, starting when I entered grad > >Mark Modig >ihnp4!sfmag!mom >:-) I used to work in the credit dept at Sears, you get points for each thing on the app, and if your points aren't >= some number, you don't get the card. I remember one guy who made a lot of money, had lots of other credit, but got turned down because he had just been transfered, and had only lived at his present address for a week. Best way to go it to buy something, but tell the clerk you want to charge the thing on your nonexistant charge card. It will get approved/denied in about 2 days, and your chances are a lot better. Also, make sure the thing is filled out right. At the local store they sort them into two piles, potential declines, and regular apps. It could get killed by some high school kid before it ever makes it to the credit people. -robert seismo!unrvax!unlv!robert
weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P. Wiener) (03/09/86)
In article <873@sfmag.UUCP> mom@sfmag.UUCP (M.Modig) writes: >I've tried four times to get a Sears card, starting when I entered grad >school. An *extremely* wealthy son of an even *more* extremely wealthy Saudi Arabian had credit problems when he went to school in America. First, he needed a cosigner for his apartment because he was underage. Second, his application for a credit card through a bank was REJECTED the first time through! When they process those computer forms, obvious things can get lost. The above is a TRUE story: I have met the guy involved and know very well the person who cleared up his problems. (Uh, if you don't give him the credit card, he or his dad might buy your bank and fire you.) I even have the form letter rejecting his initial credit card application--it is amazing. ucbvax!brahms!weemba Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720
jeanette@randvax.UUCP (Jeanette Haritan) (03/12/86)
In article <310@drivax.UUCP> holloway@drivax.UUCP (Bruce Holloway) writes: >>Tim Thompson: (that's me, folks!) >> Figure this: I'm still a college student and have my Sears, Penney's, Lazarus, >>and a few other cards. I'm making about $137 every other week, and I've got >>cards coming out my nose. NOW, my wife, who's supporting us right now by >>teaching at a junior high school, has been turned down THREE TIMES for a Sears >>card, and we're still now sure why. Can anyone explain that, other than >>Sears being kind of stupid for giving their card to someone who can't afford >>it, and not giving it to someone who can? > I was advised by a friend to apply for a Sears card when I was in college. He insisted that a college student could practically walk in and get one on demand. I found this hard to buy, as I had no credit at all, except for my student loan, which wasn't due payment for four years. Also, I had no checking account...only savings. Well, I WAS turned down, simply because I had no checking account. Within a week I opened an account, and within four weeks I had my card. I have no idea why your wife would be turned down, especially three times!? Have her keep trying. I know of one person who applied for an AMEX, and was turned down. She re-applied, changing the spelling of her name by one letter (i.e, jon...john, tammy...tammi, etc.). With the second application she was approved. I have another friend who actually had BAD credit when she got married. Her husband had a Mastercard, and when she was divorced, she called MC and asked them to take her husband's name off HER card (she never was even added to HIS). Sure enough, MC sent two cards...one to him and one to her with separate accounts. I would not advise doing that...seems one could get caught or something. -- jeannette haritan yeah sure