[net.nlang.celts] Stonehenge: Reply to K. Kissell

jmm@bonnie.UUCP (Joe Mcghee) (07/10/84)

>>	Furthermore, the site of Stonehenge was chosen for its broad open
>> planes, for the most part, unobstructed by trees and other irregularities of
>> terrain. 

>>                                                             In fact several
>> authors have pointed out that the natural horizon is a bit irregular. It
>> rises and falls and is obstructed by intermittent groves of trees. 
 
>> Kevin, the site is ON SALISBURY PLAIN and it must be fairly flat or it
>> wouldn't have been named Salisbury PLAIN! The question can be quickly settled
>> by anyone who cares to look at the photographs in "Stonehenge Decoded",
>> "Beyond Stonehenge" or any other book that has pictures of the site.


> Make up your mind, Joe.  Better still, see for yourself.  My own photographs
> show a gentle slope to the southeast, which confirms my recollection.


	Make up your own mind, Kevin. In my first article I stated that the
ground had a gentle slope. You said the terrain consisted of "rolling hills".
You have changed your statement but you don't seem inclined to acknowledge
the fact. Furthermore there is nothing inconsistent about saying a region
consists of plains with an irregular horizon. Even the Bonneville Salt Flats
are edged by mountains. Salisbury Plain is about as flat as it gets in
the British Isles. I was not implying that Stonehenge has mountains on the
horizon only a minor variation of a few degrees. If you were really familiar
with the literature on the subject you wouldn't even bother to bring up this
point.


>> Kevin, you seem to be implying that they relied on the natural horizon
>> for the sighting of sunrise and sunset, moonrise and moonset. 


> Why not?  Every indication is that the objective was to determine what
> *day* the sun/moon rose on a particular arc, not what *minute*.


	Again, you seem to have made the assumption that the sun and moon
rise and set VERTICALLY at this site. Vertical rising and setting only occurs
in the region close to the equator. At or near the poles the paths of the sun
and moon are at or near horizontal with respect to the horizon. Stonehenge
is about 51 degrees north latitude. This means that the AVERAGE angle of the
path of the sun is (90 - 51) = 39 degrees above the horizon. At midsummer
the path of the sun grazes the horizon at an even lower angle! Thus, a change
in the height of the horizon results in a considerable change in the AZIMUTH
or direction of rising or setting.

>>                                            Midsummer sunrise is observed
>> over the TOP OF THE HEEL STONE. 

> Yes, the Heel Stone, which is *outside* the ditch and circle, and which is
> *not* level with the stones of the circle.  Its importance was not its height
> but the position of it's tip with respect to the edges of the standing stones
> in the circle.


	I have already dealt with the method of leveling the stones along the
avenue (including the heel stone) in my article "Stonehenge: Hypotheses
Extended". The heel stone would have to be level with a viewing point within
the circle, otherwise the line of sight would not be anywhere near the horizon.


>> Kevin, I used the word "curragh" for a very good reason. "Curragh" or
>> "corwgl" is probably the word used by the builders of Stonehenge. "Coracle"
>> is a modern English corruption of the word. 

> Joe, I used "coracle" because that is the English word that people can use to 
> look it up in an encylopedia or dictionary.  I'm sure it sounds nice in
> Gaelic, but I don't speak Gaelic. 


	Both "curragh" and "corwgl" can be found in Webster's New Collegiate
Dictionary along with a vast number of other Celtic words which long ago
became part of the English language. In fact we all use a number of Celtic
words every day. Probably the first words you ever spoke were "mommy" and
"daddy". While these words are considered colloquial in English, they
actually come from "mammai" and "daddai" the Celtic words for mother and
father.
	The English word "galore" comes from the Celtic "go leor" meaning
enough. The English word "bale" comes from the Celtic word "bailim" which
means to gather. Huddle, cuddle and probably coddle come from the Celtic
"chuddladh" meaning bed. Another Celtic word which has come into English
is "dun" which means fort or fortified place. "Dun" evolved into "don" and
then into "ton" and then became "town". You may recognize the use of this
word in a number of old Celtic place names:

		Dundalk
		Dunham
		Dundee
		Dunstable
		Donegal
		Dunkirk
	     Verdun
	     London
		Doncaster
	  Wimbledon
		Dunhill

				J. M. McGhee
				bonnie!jmm