jeff@heurikon.UUCP (05/13/84)
Gads!!! Either I'm an old-timer or else the academic world sure has
changed! I must commend Brooks for his (initial) patience with Maroney.
Anywhere else, and certainly in the "real" business world, unc!tim would
never have been allowed to drag out this issue as far as he did. I bend
over backwards to consider an employee's grievance, but I would have
thrown Maroney out at first base if he carried on here as he did at UNC.
I think he disproved his own case simply by posting so much (eloquent)
drivel to the net. If you didn't notice, he quadrupled the burden
by posting *separate* articles to net.general, net.net-people and
net.misc as well as putting the whole thing in net.sources. That's
about 240k! It looks like he tried to cancel some of them, but they
still got around the net.
He sees the issue as censorship. I think it boils down to some form of
paranoia and a perceived *right* to be on the net. The discussion of
his mail and these articles might be more appropriate for net.med :-).
What a waste of time. I'll leave it up to others on the net to flame
directly at unc!tim. He'll get enough to bring UNC's machine to a halt,
I'm sure. Somehow, I just don't think we've heard the end of this story.
--
/"""\ Jeffrey Mattox, Heurikon Corp, Madison, WI
|O.O| {harpo, hao, philabs}!seismo!uwvax!heurikon!jeff (news & mail)
\_=_/ ihnp4!heurikon!jeff (mail - fast)perelgut@utcsrgv.UUCP (Stephen Perelgut) (05/14/84)
<>
If it comes down to a net.vote, I vote against unc!tim. His
posting proves that he:
1) Violated an agreement by purposefully misreading the
intent. When he posted to unix-wizards
2) Violated an agreement by getting a friend to post for
him. [I like the response. Boot the "friend" off!]
3) Violated an agreement by mailing outside the local
environment to beg for help.
Any employee who does all that should be fired.
As for "it doesn't cost anything" arguments, what about the
sites outside the local area who have to transmit the mail and
news around the world.
Finally, anyone childish enough to vent his dirty laudry on the
network deserves what he gets.
I hope that any company that is thinking of hiring Tim takes into
account his record (including the 240K of whining drivel.)
--
Stephen Perelgut
Computer Systems Research Group University of Toronto
Usenet: {linus, ihnp4, allegra, decvax, floyd}!utcsrgv!perelgut
CSNET: perelgut@Torontoken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow) (05/15/84)
-- >> Gads!!! Either I'm an old-timer or else the academic world sure has >> changed! I must commend Brooks for his (initial) patience with Maroney. >> Anywhere else, and certainly in the "real" business world, unc!tim would >> never have been allowed to drag out this issue as far as he did. I bend >> over backwards to consider an employee's grievance, but I would have >> thrown Maroney out at first base if he carried on here as he did at UNC. >> He sees the issue as censorship. I think it boils down to some form of >> paranoia and a perceived *right* to be on the net... >> Jeffrey Mattox, Heurikon Corp, Madison, WI I'm sure glad I don't work for you, Jeff, although the feeling would probably be mutual. (Too bad, too, I lived in Madison for 12 years, think about settling down there some day..) What made my skin crawl was (1) how Tim's employers never stated to his face what he did wrong, and (2) how quick so many of his cohorts were to turn him in. The religious analogy, considering the anti-biblical-god musings that were probably at the root of this, is ironic. Sure, Tim has no *right* to the net. It's not a matter of rights-- UNC could probably get away with an 8x10 cell and 3 meals a day--I think that's all the Geneva Convention requires for POW's, but then you have to think about what kind of outfit they're running. One assumes that Tim is busting his buns to get something up, and access to the net is a nice way of showing appreciation. So we're down to management philosophies--goody. Sir Thomas Beecham was a brilliant conductor who, unlike martinets like Toscannini, never disciplined his orchestras. When asked how he achieved such marvelous results, he said: "WHY, I SIMPLY HIRE THE BEST MUSICIANS, AND LET THEM PLAY." Think about it, Jeff. -- *** *** JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** ***** ****** ****** 14 May 84 [25 Floreal An CXCII] ken perlow ***** ***** (312)979-7261 ** ** ** ** ..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken *** ***
lincoln@eosp1.UUCP (Dick Lincoln) (05/16/84)
> What made my skin crawl was (1) how Tim's employers never stated to > his face what he did wrong, and (2) how quick so many of his cohorts > were to turn him in. Let's be fair about this; we really don't know what Tim's employers did with him about this matter, nor how "quick" his accusers were. We have only heard one side of this case.
spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) (05/16/84)
Does anyone have part 6 of the Maroney Case History? Were there any
parts beyond 6? A rather large number of cancellation messages found
their way onto the net a few scant hours after the original articles
were posted. I suspect they were done by the system administration at
UNC rather than by Tim himself. I was going to read the articles when
I got into school the next morning, but found that most of the postings
were lost. Perhaps that's why Tim posted separate copies to multiple
groups...?
Censorship on the net is not new. There are a number of sites on the
net where news and even mail is censored. One friend of mine was
recently telling me about the major company where he works (which shall
remain unamed) where one of the major bozos not only censors incoming
and outgoing news, he also reads mail. At this site, they are so
paranoid about "security" that they have locked up virtually every
directory in the system. For instance, you have to find a privileged
operator to run an "lpq" command. You also cannot run the normal csh
because the bin directories aren't readable and the shell cannot form
the command hash list. And the ".." directory is unreadable on user
accounts. And so on. This is pretty amazing at a major company whose
name is known to all of us.
I believe that the person responsible for each site has a certain
amount of responsibility to deny users access to the net if they abuse
their privilege of access. Note that I said "privilege." There is no
right to net access. If I were administering a machine, and I was
aware of someone abusing their privilege, I would take appropriate
action. However, I would definitely observe some simple rules of
fairness and due process. Tim's case *appears* to be one of arbitrary
action compounded by some personal motives. The items that Tim posted
make the UNC administration appear to be somewhat arbitrary and petty
in their decisions. It also appears as if Tim was denied due process.
I, for one, will not attempt to either defend Tim or condemn the
administration at UNC. Only one side of the story has been partially
told, and every story has at least two sides. Still, I think Tim could
have used better judgement. In fact, I think everybody involved might
have benefitted from a little more restraint. Consulting an unbiased,
outside mediator might have been a good step. Tim has always impressed
me as a bright, although sometimes too hasty, individual; I wish him
well wherever he may be. On the other hand, the only impression I have
of Mr. Brooks at UNC is through this incident, and that impression is
not entirely favorable.
This is a very good example of a conflict with no winners -- only
losers. Let's hope we don't see any more cases like this on the net.
Let's all try to remember that privilege implies responsibility.
--
Off the Wall of Gene Spafford
The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332
CSNet: Spaf @ GATech ARPA: Spaf%GATech @ CSNet-Relay
uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,ihnp4,masscomp,ut-ngp}!gatech!spaf
...!{rlgvax,sb1,uf-cgrl,unmvax,ut-sally}!gatech!spafjdb@qubix.UUCP (05/19/84)
> What made my skin crawl was (1) how Tim's employers never stated to > his face what he did wrong, and (2) how quick so many of his cohorts > were to turn him in. "If you're going to be shot, whose side do you expect me to be on?" J Heller, Catch-22 -- Dr Memory ...{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl!qubix!jdb
custead@sask.UUCP (Der cuss) (05/19/84)
>>>UNC could probably get away with an 8x10 cell and 3 meals a day--
Egads...this is subversive. We didn't know that programmers at UNC
lived in such luxury. Now our programmers are going to want 8x10 cells.
That is certainly more space than programmers get in most organizations
I have seen.
Where are we going to find that kind of space? And as for 3 meals a day,
it boggles the mind. Look if you have a good deal like this, keep it
to yourself. If you go blabbing it all over the net, no one else will
be able to keep their staff.
Doing hard time at the U of S...
custead
ihnp4!sask!custead