jmm@bonnie.UUCP (Joe Mcghee) (10/11/84)
>--> Dave Peak, in his article "Re: Death of A Terrorist?", attempts to >-->pass off his submission as a reply to my article "Death of A Terrorist?". > > I do ? > I thought I just got pissed off at more pro IRA garbage(interestingly > veiled but garbage all the same) from you and forgot to change the > subject line.' > Naaw, I must be wrong 'cause if you state something it must be a FACT !!!! I stated names, places and dates. If anything is incorrect you ought to be able to verify it easily. Why don't you call the local office of the British Propaganda Service ...oops British Information Service. You may have a little difficulty though. The last I heard they were denying that the British Information Office exists in this area! That is unless you put on a phoney British accent. Then they'll put you right through. You should have no difficulty with that Dave. The IRA garbage you refer to came from the London Sunday Times and was written by Derek Humphry. Devilishly clever those IRA propagandists taking over the minds and bodies of British Journalists! What will they think of next??!!! >-->In fact, Dave does not deal with any of the facts presented in my article, >-->but attempts to divert attention away from it by commenting on a newspaper >-->article on an entirely different subject. > > Oh you noticed ? Yes, Dave, I'm sure the whole net noticed. >--> The reason for this is that there >-->is no way for him or anyone to justify the murders of children by the >-->British Army and the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC). > > Oh and there is justification when the IRA does it then ? > Oh I forgot....they're FREEDOM murderers ooops fighters ! > > BTW - check your dictionary murder does not mean accidental death or > manslaughter and who appointed you JUDGE & JURY ?????????? Whenever I hear of a 180 lb. soldier in a helmet, flak jacket and riding in an armored car, shooting a 10 year old boy I call it murder. It's just a personal defect of character, I guess. If I was sitting in the jury box, the soldier wouldn't have a chance. Of course, the trial of a soldier for shooting a child will never happen in Northern Ireland while the British are in control. In my article I never mentioned the IRA nor did I try to justify their actions. However, in the ABC News special "To Die for Ireland" a British officer leading an Army patrol through the town of Crossmaglen stated that when his patrol crosses major intersections they always wait to cross with the school children, because he said the IRA would never fire at them when school children are around. Neat trick using the kids for human shields. Say! Don't "terrorists" usually do that??!! If you have any stories of children intentionally killed by the IRA, with names, dates and places, of course, we'd certainly be interested to hear them. > Please show where I am justifying murder ANYWHERE by ANYONE !!!!!! > Either that or don't state obvious LIES 'cause that can land you in > a heap of trouble. Your reply was obviously an attempt to justify the actions of the Army by bringing in an event which happened 9 years later and 100 miles away. The death of Stephen Geddis could conceivably be used to justify actions which happened later, but you cannot justify the killing of this boy in 1975 by citing an event which happened 9 years after his death. The Irish National Caucus of Washington, D.C. was once falsely reported to be collecting funds for the IRA when they clearly state that their funds do not leave the U.S. and are only use for lobbying in the U.S. Congress. Furthermore, their books are always open for public scrutiny. The Irish National Caucus sued the reporter for slander and won. The results of that slander suit were not reported in the press. If you regard it as slander that I say you justify the actions of the British Army, that doesn't say too much for the British Army. >--> At the same time he attempts to discredit me personally be implying >-->that only supporters of the IRA and Noraid oppose British Rule in Northern >-->Ireland. In fact there are literally hundreds of organizations (and >-->un-numbered multitudes of unaffiliated individuals) in the United States, >-->Britain and other countries that oppose British Rule in Northern Ireland. > > I totally agree that others want troops out of Ulster but you've already >stated that the IRA way is valid Please show me where and when I stated that the IRA way is valid. > ( if my impression is incorrect you can always state otherwise). Oh, so that was only your IMPRESSION, but based on your IMPRESSION you decided to accuse me of supporting the IRA! It sounds like YOU may be heading for trouble. It seems that an IMPRESSION or a SUSPICION is always justification for British troops, police and their supporters to shoot, destroy, maim or imprison anyone they feel like. And, after all, isn't that just what it says in the Special Powers Act? > I think in your posted reply to T.C. Wheeler you state that approx 26% or > less of the population support the fact of maintaining troops in Ulster ! On or August 31, I posted an article entitled "A Recent Social Survey of Britain". That article summarized a newspaper article from the Jersey Journal of August 30, 1984. The newspaper article reported that a British sociological research group called Social and Community Planning had determined that only 28% of the British people favored the presence of British troops in Northern Ireland. Now those IRA propagandists are taking over the minds and bodies of British sociologists!!! LOOK OUT!! There's one under your desk! Well, all I can say is don't ever get them wet and don't EVER feed them after midnight! I erred in my latest article when I stated the percentage as 26%. Shows you how fuzzy your memory can get after 5 weeks. So, my credibility has slipped by 2%. > But in the same breath you add the reasons why YOU believe this to be a > FACT ! how do you KNOW ? I don't believe you asked any of them ! In the same breath I did nothing of the kind. I then presented a plan for the withdrawal of troops from Northern Ireland which I believe would cause the least inconvenience to all the parties involved. > As an ex-pat Brit I can tell you that most English,Scots & Welsh peoples > of my aquaintence do not want to WASTE the troops lives trying to keep > 2 murderous organizations apart(IRA & UDA). As a matter of fact, the British Army has been actively cooperating with most loyalist paramilitaries. Have you ever heard of the British Army seizing arms belonging to a loyalist paramilitary organization. Not on your life! The UDA has never been outlawed, even after the head of that group, Andy Tyrie, stated flatly to the television cameras that his group had carried out assassinations and would continue to do so in the future and was given information about nationalists by the British Army. > However the residents of Ulster are British citizens and are should be > protected from these two terrorist organizations. If the residents of Ulster are British citizens (the British would say British SUBJECTS), why have they never been governed by the same laws that govern England? Why is there no right to trial by jury and why are plastic bullets banned in "Great Britain" and not in Northern Ireland? Why is there no animosity between factions in the Republic of Ireland? > The RUC weren't impartial enough from all accounts I've heard so how was > the government supposed to protect it's citizens ? I'll agree with you that > the army is doing a lousy job but what do you suggest let both sides go hell > for leather at each other ? How about prosecuting any soldier or RUC man who uses excessive force? And how about making an honest attempt to remove discrimination in housing, employment, education and every other facet of life in Northern Ireland? How about stopping the constant harassment of the nationalist people? I'll tell you why the British government can't do these things. If there wasn't any Army and RUC repression, more nationalists would stay in Northern Ireland instead of emigrating and in a very few years there would be an ABSOLUTE MAJORITY OF NATIONALISTS in Northern Ireland and the British government would be voted out by plebiscite. Under the present system of repression this process of building a nationalist majority has been dragged out over a period of more than sixty years at the cost of thousands of dead and injured, but the British government is prepared to pay any price in Irish lives when the loss of 5,451 square miles of territory are at stake. >--> >--> bonnie!jmm >--> J. M. McGhee >--> >--> "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against >--> every form of tyranny over the mind of man." >--> >--> Thomas Jefferson >--> > > Overall what I got pissed off about was the fact that you present some > information from (I presume) a reliable source and then immediately start > your out and out propaganda diarrhea. > > "I have sworn upon the alter of God eternal hostility against bonnie!jmms form > of tyrany over the mind of man !" - D Peak (Circa 1984) Now Dave, don't you feel bad that you called Derek Humphry and those poor hardworking British sociologists a bunch of IRA propagandists? bonnie!jmm J. M. McGhee "Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson "Those who make peaceful evolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy