rick@uwmacc.UUCP (12/17/84)
[ Ubiquitous little bug, isn't it? ]
Today, WHA (Madison's Public TV station) announced that they were
going to have the package of lost and unreleased episodes of Dr.
Who available in March. Then they added:
But this will cost us $9000.
Our pledge goal is $150,000 and we only have $90K
right now. So, if we don't meet our goal, we'll be facing
some very tough choices about what to cut.
WHA just kissed goodbye to any pledges from me with this cheesey
attempt at blackmail. I wouldn't have minded so much if they
had said that they'd get the episodes if they met their goals...
but first they give, and then take away. Slime-brains, they are.
They made the next $10,000 of their drive during the 90 minutes Dr. Who
was on this afternoon; the drive lasted all week. In other
words, 10% of that week's "take" came while Dr. Who was on.
I really think Dr. Who fans deserve better than this crap, considering
that they are mostly college-age people without a great deal of cash.
If the fans of Nova, Masterpiece Theatre, Nature, etc. were supporting
WHA to the same extent their pledge drives wouldn't be lasting a
week long. But then again, we just watch that silly sci-fi stuff,
not SERIOUS programming.
--
"Now I guess I'll have to tell 'em/That I got no cerebellum...."
Rick Keir -- MicroComputer Information Center, MACC
1210 West Dayton St/U Wisconsin Madison/Mad WI 53706
{allegra, ihnp4, seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!rickericf@uwvax.UUCP (12/17/84)
I have to agree with Rick. I don't know about other public
television stations, but I was watching Dr. Who on WHA, and
when a pledge break came on I was impressed at what whiners
they appeared to be. They weren't asking, or begging, or
pleading, they were *WHINING*. I, too, refused to pledge.
When will they realize how many people they're losing when
they do that? Whatever happened to their attempt at
eliminating pledging by warning people in advance that a
pledge drive was coming, and that if they pledged in advance then some
of the pledge drive would be eliminated (exterminated?)?
This always seemed like a good idea to me (ever since I saw WGBH
do it, and they ended up with only two pledge days during pledge week!).
The only amusing aspect of the whole thing is watching while
the people during the pledge break try to engage the enthusiasm
of the Dr. Who fans to pledge, while all the time they have NO
idea what/who Dr. Who is. I at least get a small chuckle out of
that.
Enough babbling.
--
-Eric Feigenson
Usenet: {seismo, allegra, ihnp4}!uwvax!ericf
Arpanet: ericf@wisc-rsch.arpachuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuqui[The Time Traveller]) (12/18/84)
>[ Ubiquitous little bug, isn't it? ] >Today, WHA (Madison's Public TV station) announced that they were >going to have the package of lost and unreleased episodes of Dr. >Who available in March. Then they added: > But this will cost us $9000. > Our pledge goal is $150,000 and we only have $90K > right now. So, if we don't meet our goal, we'll be facing > some very tough choices about what to cut. > >WHA just kissed goodbye to any pledges from me with this cheesey >attempt at blackmail. I wouldn't have minded so much if they >had said that they'd get the episodes if they met their goals... >but first they give, and then take away. Slime-brains, they are. Hmm... Last year, KQED in San Francisco went over in their pledges in one festival-- they announced that they would cut out a couple of days of pledges from their next pledge week, and did. Response was such that they went over again. Our other station, KTEH, also wanted to buy the new Pertwee stuff (This was the first station to purchase the Davison episodes, BTW). What they did was allow Dr. Who fans to allocate their pledges to Dr. Who-- first by paying off the current licensing contracts and then setting up a special fund to buy the new programs. All you had to do way tell them. Both of these stations are pretty classey, actually, and treat their viewers well. Pledges are a pain, generally, for them and for the viewers, but they seem to handle them well. Suggestion: rather than just bitch here, write a letter to your PBS station bitching to them as well, explaining exactly why they almost had your money and lost it. Enough people do that and they'll clean up their act. chuq -- From behind the bar at Callahan's: Chuq Von Rospach {allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones. So let it be with Caesar. The noble Brutus hath told you Caesar was ambitious... And Brutus is an honorable man
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (12/19/84)
Yes, public stations behave abominably at pledge time; the amazing thing is that their behavior is actually counter-productive. a) There is NO advantage to the subscriber or pledger in regard to the continued pledge breaks and begging -- even if you subscribe, you still have to endure this nonsense. If they would have some methodology where those who pledge get a secret code which could be sent back over a two-way cable system and, instead of seeing a pledge break, those viewers see something interesting instead (a pastoral scene, nude dancers cavorting, the real program continuing, whatever), there would be some real incentive! (Yes, I know this isn't possible now, but that's just engineering...) As it is, those who have paid are just as inconvenienced as those who haven't. A hell of a way to run a business... (And we need a way for this to work on a broadcast signal, not just a cable feed, too! Any inventive genius out there with some ideas?) b) The station management actually insults the members during pledge drives by replacing the standard programming, which the members like enough to pay for, by "specials" and one-time or out-of-schedule programs. For example, let's say you like "This Old House", "Sneak Previews", and Dr. Who, and you like them enough to pay a pledge to the station carrying them. What do they do during pledge drives? They DROP the first two programs and don't even show them! And they delay the start of Dr. Who and interrupt it (delaying it's already-too-late time slot even further!). [I pull the first two examples from my local station's past behavior; they actually must have learned something this time, as they left "This Old House" on this last pledge drive! "Sneak Previews" was, as usual, wiped out...] (Or, as was discussed in previous postings, the station will do something seemingly beneficial to Dr. Who fans, like a "festival" in which they show five Dr. Who episodes in a week. However, they show them at a too-late time on weekday nights, making watching them inconvenient or impossible for their intended audience, and then they do not re-show those episodes in the regular time-slot. Thus, regular viewers receive a slap-in-the-face. This is conducive to donations? Hardly!) c) The national program producers damage their programs to shorten them during pledge weeks, thereby making the programming less valuable and less inspiring of donations at the very time they are asking for such donations! The prime example of this is "Wall Street Week" -- the best part of this program is the "viewers' questions". So what do they delete every pledge period, and at every other opportunity? The viewers' questions, of course! Talk about stupidity... All in all, I would prefer to have straightforward and honest commercials. I wouldn't mind having the programs interrupted for them, either. I need to take a leak now and then, anyhow. And I always flick between channels during commercials, which lets me catch up on other programming, or just read with the audio muted. This pledge whining nonsense is the pits. Will Martin USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA
mauney@ncsu.UUCP (Jon Mauney) (12/19/84)
> Yes, public stations behave abominably at pledge time; the amazing thing > is that their behavior is actually counter-productive. > ... You know, there *is* a solution to this problem: Why not let the government pay for it? The Federal government could pay the costs of PBS producing programs, and the states could pay the operating costs of the individual stations. If everyone contributed through their taxes, it would only cost a few dollars each, and the benefits would be Wait a minute! What decade is this? What am I saying? Oh never mind. -- Jon Mauney, mcnc!ncsu!mauney (Just call me a knee-jerk liberal)
net@asgb.UUCP (12/19/84)
While I agree that pledge time is a real pain, you must remember that this is PUBLIC (e.g. viewer sponsored) television that we are talking about. I HATE pledge week, but would much rather put up with a week of this necessary evil once a year than a commercial break every 7 minutes thru-out the entire year. I put to you that you are being unfair to yourself, your PBS station, and all PBS viewers if you refuse to send money just because you dislike pledge week. Hell, if they got enough money during the year then they wouldn't need a pledge week. Yes, some stations give you a chance to send in money to "buy" pledge days (our two local public stations both did that this year), and yes, it does sound like your station was being somewhat slimy. BUT viewer supported television cannot last without viewer support! (If you can only affort $10 then send them $10 -- they'll gladly accept it!) Enough -- let's go back to discussing our favorite PBS show! Neil Nelson (former viewer/supporter of Madison public television; current viewer/supporter of Denver public television) Burroughs Advanced Systems Group . . .sdcsvax!bmcg!nkn
keithd@cadovax.UUCP (12/20/84)
[]
Ever since the pledge drives started, I've had no inclination whatsoever to
contribute to PBS. This is not because I can't stand 'pledge drive whining'
though I expect it would be pretty irritating if I gave it the slightest
attention. I feel that Public Broadcasting should not be just Public
Pay TV, but Public Generated Broadcasting (PGB?), or at least allow for
such programs. I want to see what the students are doing with film and
video, and what John Doe in his garage is doing. Back in the 60's there
were programs like 'Flick Out' and International Animation Festival.
These programs were forums for programs that had no other market. And they
were produced by non-proffesionals. (ok, maybe they wanted to be) These
programs were also a forum for non-commercial shorts that had no market
strictly because they weren't 90 minutes or weren't 5 minuite cartoons.
This is what I expect from PBS, some time alloted for PUBLIC SUBMISSIONS.
And I might add, submissions that are not edited out because someone
thinks they know what kind of taste we have. Sure, this may imply a
lot of awful stuff, but I prefer to decide for myself as to their merits.
Until such time as they provide this type of programs, (and until they
get their god-damn noses out of the air, the snooty stuffed shirts!) then
as far as I'm concerned, they're too good for MY money, I'd much sooner donate
it to the kid down the street for film for his super-8. I've been tempted
to send PBS my check for $0.00. I expect that I am in the minority though,
if PBS really provided this type of public submission programming, they'd
probably LOSE more supporters than they gain. (I'm still holding out
though!) The question I think we all should ask is 'would I
pay to keep this stuff on the air?'. My answer is NO. Dosen't mean
I won't watch at times, (or that I'll feel guilty because I didn't pay)
because if it all goes away because I didn't contribute, then as far as I am
concerned, it's TOO BAD!
Keith Doyle
{ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd
"Not Happy about Public T.V."rsk@stat-l (Rich Kulawiec) (12/21/84)
I am a former volunteer/employee from public tv station WTVP-47 and public radio station WCBU-FM in Peoria, Illinois...and I spent a fair amount of time asking for money on the air, or answering phones to collect it. I will give you the same suggestions that I gave to irate listeners or viewers when they called complaining about the disruption that pledge drives inevitably caused: 1. Think in relative terms: most stations run pledge drives 3 or 4 times a year for one week. During that period, the fraction of air time occupied by pledging hoopla is typically 1/2 that occupied by commercials on non-public stations; thus you see about 2 weeks "worth" of non-program material in the course of a year...assuming your viewing habits are (a) constant and (b) extensive. (Site note: In the WTTW-11 (Chicago) viewing area, what seems more tolerable? A week of Marty Robbins asking for money for the station, or a week of Empire carpet, K-tel, and Bert Weiman Ford commericals?) 2. PBS stations are not out to inconvenience the viewers any more than they have to; they depend *directly* on them for support, and thus tend to be appreciative and eager to accomodate. Compare their motivations, to those of network/local stations competing for ratings. (Side note: Compare, if you will, the case of Doctor Who, a perenially supported show whose future seems assured for the next decade, with that of NBC News Overnight, a critically acclaimed show that was cancelled in a network fit of pique. Assess the Doctor's chances on NBC, and Overnight's chances on PBS.) 3. And finally, nobody is making you watch, and nobody is forcing you to contribute. If you are really unhappy with their mode of operation, you are always free to turn the dial and withhold your funds. -- Rich Kulawiec @ Purdue C.C. Unix Systems Group rsk@purdue-asc.arpa (decvax,ihnp4,uiucdcs)!pur-ee!rsk.uucp (decwrl,hplabs,ucbvax)!purdue!rsk.uucp Wombats are partially protected under the Wildlife Act of 1975.
garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson) (12/21/84)
> Yes, public stations behave abominably at pledge time; the amazing thing > is that their behavior is actually counter-productive. > > a) There is NO advantage to the subscriber or pledger in regard to the > continued pledge breaks and begging -- even if you subscribe, you still > have to endure this nonsense. One of the public stations in this area (Connecticut) did provide the following incentive to pledge: Each day during pledge time, they announced how much they wanted to raise that day. When they reached that daily goal, they stopped having pledge breaks that day. (No, I didn't watch it every day to see how often they made their goal.) But to call PBS pledge time behavior "counter-productive" doesn't seem realistic; it may not be the most productive method possible (and you may be assured that PBS stations are looking for the most productive method possible), but it obviously works. Gary Samuelson
rick@uwmacc.UUCP (the absurdist) (12/22/84)
In article <603@asgb.UUCP> net@asgb.UUCP writes: >I put to you that you are being unfair to yourself, your PBS station, >and all PBS viewers if you refuse to send money just because you >dislike pledge week. > ... Yes, some stations give you >a chance to send in money to "buy" pledge days (our two local public >stations both did that this year), and yes, it does sound like >your station was being somewhat slimy. BUT viewer supported television >cannot last without viewer support! (If you can only affort $10 >then send them $10 -- they'll gladly accept it!) > I don't object to pledge week; I think viewer-sponsored TV is a good idea. What I and a number of viewers of other PBS stations have objected to is the attitude that is displayed towards Dr. Who fans by the stations. In general, Dr. Who fans are one of the top groups in supporting PBS; one would appreciate some recognition of this fact. Practices such as hinting that they will drop Dr. Who programs if they don't get even more cash pledged, and routinely tossing Dr. Who all over their schedule so that you miss episodes don't build loyalty to the station. Pledging, yes; blackmail, no. -- "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less" -- Humpty Dumpty, the noted linguist Rick Keir -- MicroComputer Information Center, MACC 1210 West Dayton St/U Wisconsin Madison/Mad WI 53706 {allegra, ihnp4, seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!rick
frodo@wlcrjs.UUCP (James M. Scardelis) (12/26/84)
In article <636@bunker.UUCP> garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson) writes: >One of the public stations in this area (Connecticut) did provide >the following incentive to pledge: Each day during pledge time, >they announced how much they wanted to raise that day. When they >reached that daily goal, they stopped having pledge breaks that >day. (No, I didn't watch it every day to see how often they made >their goal.) New Jersey Network did that here, too...they needed a certain amount of money, and as soon as they made it (about 15 minutes into the DR. WHO pledge break) they said good night, thank you, and that there would be no more pledge breaks until next pledge season! So far, they've kept their word... -- "One day...I Shall come back... Yes, I shall come back... But until then there must be no regrets No tears, no anxieties...just move foward in all your beliefs And prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine." -The Doctor
inc@fluke.UUCP (Gary Benson) (01/03/85)
> [] > Ever since the pledge drives started, I've had no inclination whatsoever to > contribute to PBS. ... what I expect from PBS, some time alloted for > PUBLIC SUBMISSIONS. > > And I might add, submissions that are not edited out ... > > I've been tempted to send PBS my check for $0.00. > > Keith Doyle Current FCC regulations provide "Public Access" in many locations, but frequently these programs only appear on cable. Too bad, too. I'm sure you'd be entertained by having this crap-ola disseminated all over the public airways. Watch your local public access channel sometime, and then decide if you want PBS to broadcast that. I agree with the majority opinion here that PBS lacks dismally in its fund raising tactics, but I just tune out when they have their "pledge week". The rest of the time, I watch my programs and figure the price is a bargain. It sure beats "Ring around the collar" every 5 minutes. An another note, has anyone else out there in TV-land noticed that some commercials are actually getting to be pretty artistic? I'm talking about things like the recent TRW ads, some of the United Airlines ones, the Channel No. 5, and even some of the Levis Blue Jeans ads are pretty surrealistic. The first ad I remember ever enjoying was about 5 years ago- it was for 7-Up, and ended with a scene of a balloon floating out over Central Park. The announcer states, "Seven-Up is forever," and the screen says, "Forever?" -- Gary Benson ms232e -*- John Fluke Mfg Co -*- Box C9090 -*- Everett WA 98206 USA {microsoft,allegra,ssc-vax,sun,sb1}{decvax,ihnp4,tektronix!uw-beaver}!fluke!inc giventheappropriatetechnology,ifyouleftyesterdayat1200baudyoucouldbeonsaturnnow
ron@wjvax.UUCP (Ron Christian) (01/03/85)
We DON'T want the government to pay for it. Who knows
what we will be watching??? I agree the pledge breaks
are in many cases very badly done, but it motivates the
station to play what we want, not what some conehead thinks
will offend the least ammount of people! Clean up the pledge
breaks, yes, but don't eliminate PBS's dependance on viewer
support. What power we viewers have!
--
Ron Christian (Watkins-Johnson Co. San Jose, Calif.)
{pesnta,twg,ios,qubix,turtlevax,tymix}!wjvax!ronbsa@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon Allbery (the tame hacker on the North Coast)) (01/08/85)
> Article <491@tpvax.fluke.UUCP>, from inc@fluke.UUCP (Gary Benson) +---------------- | I agree with the majority opinion here that PBS lacks dismally in its fund | raising tactics, but I just tune out when they have their "pledge week". The | rest of the time, I watch my programs and figure the price is a bargain. It | sure beats "Ring around the collar" every 5 minutes. Not to mention daily re-runs of "Bewitched". --bsa -- Brandon Allbery @ decvax!cwruecmp!ncoast!bsa (..ncoast!tdi1!bsa business) 6504 Chestnut Road, Independence, Ohio 44131 (216) 524-1416 Who said you had to be (a) a poor programmer or (b) a security hazard to be a hacker?