john@moncol.UUCP (John Ruschmeyer) (08/05/85)
A new discussion topic and something that has been bothering me for a while: Why is a TARDIS so big? The Doctor's TARDIS is usually occupied by no more than 3 or four people, namely the Doctor and his companion(s). The few times that we see another TARDIS (such as the Master's), it too has only one or two occupants. On the other hand, the evidence is that the interior of the TARDIS is as large as a city and could easily accomodate an extremely larger number of people. At one time did whole crews of Time Lords travel the universe like the crew of the Enterprise or is a TARDIS just big because it doesn't have to be small (what with Transdimensional Physics and all)? I can see where some of the labs and some basic living quarters might be needed, but would a handful of individuals really need a cloister? -- Name: John Ruschmeyer US Mail: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, NJ 07764 Phone: (201) 222-6600 x366 UUCP: ...!vax135!petsd!moncol!john ...!princeton!moncol!john ...!pesnta!moncol!john Silly quote: DM: I'm going to take the car into a bank. Col. K: Don't do it, DM. It'll never fit through the door.
pjk@hou2a.UUCP (P.KEMP) (08/06/85)
The TARDIS is so large inside because it was a mobile
research laboratory for a crew of Time Lord scientists.
"The Doctor Who Technical Manual" by Mark Harris states:
The Doctor roams the Universe in a vehicle known to
its inventors, the Time Lords, as a TARDIS [sic *].
The letters stand for Time And Relative Dimensions
In Space and, as this title suggests, it is far
more capable of transporting its operator and
passengers through time and space to any planet
in the Universe and to any point in that planet's
history.
The Doctor's is an old `type 40' TARDIS, also
known as as a Mark I, built as a mobile research
laboratory which would carry its crew of
scientists to survey distant galaxies, explore
fabulous new worlds and observe astronomical
events. The type 40 TARDIS has been superseded
by more efficient and better equipped models.
[like The Master's capsule]
[skipping ahead]
Amazingly, the TARDIS is infinitely bigger on
the inside than the outside. This is due to
one of the key discoveries made by the Time
Lords, that of `temporal physics'. On entering
the TARDIS through the outer door, one actually
crosses a bridge into another dimension. The
exterior of the TARDIS `exists' in the real
world, but the interior is within a different
but relative dimension [**].
[skipping ahead again]
The TARDIS is completely self-contained. Its
labyrinth of halls, passages, dormitories,
storage areas and laboratories contains a vast
wardrobe of clothes and costumes from many
planets and cultures. This can enable the
TARDIS crew to visit other worlds and periods
without drawing attention to themselves.
* - I still say that only The Doctor's capsule
is called the TARDIS, as named by his grand-daughter
Susan in the first story "An Unearthly Child."
** - Also known as `Dimensional Transcendentalism.'
Hope that answered everyone's questions!
--
Paul Kemp
ihnp4!hou2a!pjkjerry@uwmcsd1.UUCP (Jerry Lieberthal) (08/07/85)
> A new discussion topic and something that has been bothering me for a while: > > Why is a TARDIS so big? > The reason it is so big is that at one time they were considered as traveling labs, and had a number of travelers in the TARDIS. Also, one of the episodes involving Tom Baker and the *old* Master (when the DOCTOR came back as the Lord President) showed the TARDIS beyond the control room, and zillions of rooms and corridors, etc.
richardt@orstcs.UUCP (richardt) (08/09/85)
It's not that the tardis is big. It just (automatically) expands every time a new room is needed. That's why there are two control rooms -- it was easier to build the new one than to modify the old (gee, that sounds familiar...). Besides, You want lots of space for all the people the tardis carries. For example, in a couple episodes, the Tardis takes 50+ people back to their respective 'time zones' in one trip, thereby minimizing the number of people suspecting that there's something strange going on. orstcs!richardt "<creak> <creak> Oh Blast! The dematerialization circuit is on the blink again. Back to the shop! And just after I got it fixed."
lipinski@hpisla.UUCP (Greg Lipinski) (08/09/85)
The TARDIS really can't be infinite inside (it'd make some interior decorator awfully rich filling it :-) ). Remember in Castrovalva, the required thrust to escape event one was achieved by jetisonning part of the ship. This implies that it has "real" mass. An infinite volume would have infinite mass, and require infinite power to transport it. Since the inside of the TARDIS exists in another dimension and is mapped inside the outer shell (which exists in the real world), the timelords could choose an appropriate volume. This could even be changed from trip to trip. Consider that if the architectural configuration controls can delete rooms, they can probably add and reconfigure rooms as needed also. "Reality is a crutch for people that can't handle science fiction" Greg Lipinski ihnp4!hpfcla!hpisla!lipinski
jaffe@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Saul) (08/09/85)
In article <569@hou2a.UUCP>, pjk@hou2a.UUCP (P.KEMP) writes: > * - I still say that only The Doctor's capsule > is called the TARDIS, as named by his grand-daughter > Susan in the first story "An Unearthly Child." NOT TRUE!! I remember an episode (Rassilon forgive me but I can't remember the title) where the Doctor lands on a planet where the inhabitants are familiar with time lords and their vehicles. Some people notice the TARDIS and say something like: "A TARDIS?" What is it doing here??"
jcjeff@ihlpg.UUCP (Richard Jeffreys) (08/10/85)
> In article <569@hou2a.UUCP>, pjk@hou2a.UUCP (P.KEMP) writes: > > * - I still say that only The Doctor's capsule > > is called the TARDIS, as named by his grand-daughter > > Susan in the first story "An Unearthly Child." > > > NOT TRUE!! I remember an episode (Rassilon forgive me but I > can't remember the title) where the Doctor lands on a planet where > the inhabitants are familiar with time lords and their vehicles. > Some people notice the TARDIS and say something like: > > "A TARDIS?" What is it doing here??" It WAS stated in the very first episode, that Susan had invented the name. (I saw the first broadcast back in '63!) The episode that the quote came from is, I think, "The Deadly Assassin" The two episodes were put out 14 years apart, and is quite possible that it was a simple goof.(Careful records are kept of long running programs so that goofs like that should not appear.) -- [ Why pander life's complexities, when the leather runs smooth on the passenger seat - The Smiths ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ || From the keys of Richard Jeffreys ( British Citizen Overseas ) || || employed by North American Philips Corporation || || @ AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, Illinois || ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ || General disclaimer about anything and everything that I may have typed || ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
holly@dartvax.UUCP (Holly Cabell) (08/11/85)
Someone mentioned that the TARDIS was infinite, however, I remember a where part of the TARDIS was destroyed, and part if it was taken out to form a "null chamber" that was used to transport the Doctor to get aid. There was a ruckus about what would happen if all of the TARDIS were to have been destroyed, but only part of it was. If the TARDIS is in fact infinite, there should be no problem if some of it were chopped off. Alas, I'm not very good at remembering shows and their names, but perhaps someone else remembers and would be so kind as to explain what happened... -- --johnc at [the.world] ! dartvax ! holly
guy@sun.uucp (Guy Harris) (08/12/85)
> The reason it is so big is that at one time they were considered as > traveling labs, and had a number of travelers in the TARDIS. Also, > one of the episodes involving Tom Baker and the *old* Master (when the > DOCTOR came back as the Lord President) showed the TARDIS beyond the > control room, and zillions of rooms and corridors, etc. Actually, this one didn't involve the Master; the previous one set on Gallifrey (The Deadly Assassin) did. This one (The Invasion of Time) involved a race called the Vardans. The TARDIS was shown to have a bathroom (in the Roman sense of "bath" - i.e., swimming-pool size and equipped with several of those inflatable thingies used by kids in swimming pools), an art gallery, a workshop, a hothouse, and a sickbay (which, unless the sickbay was equipped with medical robots, makes the claim that it wasn't intended as a one-person ship more plausible). It also had an elevator (or "lift" for those on the other side of the big pond) for getting between the floors, although the Doctor apologized for it being out of order... Guy Harris
romain@pyrnj.uucp (Romain Kang) (08/12/85)
In article <3464@dartvax.UUCP>, holly@dartvax.UUCP (Holly Cabell) writes: > Someone mentioned that the TARDIS was infinite, however, I remember a > where part of the TARDIS was destroyed, and part if it was taken out to > form a "null chamber" that was used to transport the Doctor to get aid. In the novelization of _Castrovalva_, the TARDIS is caught in "time force" drawing them to Event One, which the TARDIS's ordinary drive systems cannot counteract for some reason. The Doctor comes up with a plan to eject 1/4 of the TARDIS's mass (17000 tons, velocity unspecified) to produce the thrust to escape. The Architecture Configuration Program (?) which does the job cannot be controlled precisely enough to make sure certain rooms remain. Fortunately, the Console Room remains aboard, but the Zero Room gets jettisoned, leaving one wall which Nyssa salvages to construct the Zero Cabinet. "So sorry, must dash..." -- --Romain Kang, Pyramid Technology Corporation US Mail: 900 Route 9, Woodbridge, NJ 07095 Ma Bell: (201) 750-2626 UUCPnet: {allegra,cmcl2,princeton,topaz}!pyrnj!romain
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (08/12/85)
In article <103@pyrnj.uucp> romain@pyrnj.uucp (Romain Kang) writes: > The Doctor comes up with a >plan to eject 1/4 of the TARDIS's mass (17000 tons, velocity ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >unspecified) to produce the thrust to escape. Aha! Many months back, I mentioned in a posting that I had thought that the TARDIS was very massive, and yet we constantly see it being schlepped around by people at the places it ends up (trucked to the local police station in Black Orchid, hauled by primitives into a cave in a couple episodes, etc.) Now here is evidence that I was right. Even though the *spatial* dimensions are tricky, with a small physical size in our world(s) but huge once you get inside, the MASS in our world(s) should be the full amount (does the above mean that 17,000 tons is 1/4 the mass, or they ejected 1/4 of 17,000 tons? [and being British, it should be "tonnes", right? :-)]. So it should be immovable without a huge crane in our environment. Therefore, every time a story has it being moved, or sitting in a spaceship which has to then haul(*) the TARDIS's mass and its own payload, this is a failure of the writers to stay correct and consistent. All fans should flame the writers! (*) This would prevent the accelleration or takeoff of spaceships in which the TARDIS is sitting; don't know what it would do, if anything, to those cruising or drifting in which they materialize.
jeff@mit-eddie.UUCP (Jeff Mattson) (08/13/85)
-------------------- > Someone mentioned that the TARDIS was infinite, however, I remember a >where part of the TARDIS was destroyed, and part if it was taken out to >form a "null chamber" that was used to transport the Doctor to get aid. >There was a ruckus about what would happen if all of the TARDIS were to >have been destroyed, but only part of it was. If the TARDIS is in fact >infinite, there should be no problem if some of it were chopped off. I believe you're talking about the Castrovalva story, Peter Davison's first. The Master had set the TARDIS's controls for "Event One", the big bang that created the universe. A quarter of the TARDIS was to be scacrificed to give it enough energy to escape the huge gravity well that the big bang created. However, the TARDIS had been set to manual control, and no one could be certain that the console room and null room (more on that later) would not be in the quarter sacrificed. This is the story that took place right after Tom Baker's Doctor regenerated into Peter Davison's Doctor. The Doctor was exceptionally weak after this and needed to stay in the null room, a specially controlled environment that would give his newly regenerated brain time to heal. This room, however, was in the quarter of the TARDIS that was sacrificed. The null chamber was created to transport the Doctor to Castrovalva, a very relaxing civilization where the Doctor could also relax.-- ---------------------------------------- Don't dream it; BE IT! ---------------------------------------- Jeff Mattson Jeff@MIT-Eddie 497-3980 (work) 424-7226 (home) 24 Westland Ave. #10 Boston, MA 02115
holly@dartvax.UUCP (Holly Cabell) (08/14/85)
> > > * - I still say that only The Doctor's capsule > > > is called the TARDIS, as named by his grand-daughter > > > Susan in the first story "An Unearthly Child." > > > > NOT TRUE!! I remember an episode (Rassilon forgive me but I > > can't remember the title) where the Doctor lands on a planet where > > the inhabitants are familiar with time lords and their vehicles. > > Some people notice the TARDIS and say something like: > > "A TARDIS?" What is it doing here??" > It WAS stated in the very first episode, that Susan had invented the name. (I > saw the first broadcast back in '63!) (haven't we been over something like this before?) I seem to remember a discussion a while back about how the Doctor and his companions are able to understand the many languages that they must run across (can you imagine all the inhabitants of all the universes speaking the kings English?). Perhaps, since The Doctor and his companions understand other languages, they would translate whatever others called it into the name they knew, e.g. TARDIS. --John Cabell -- --johnc at [the.world] ! dartvax ! holly
jim@randvax.UUCP (Jim Gillogly) (08/19/85)
In article <643@brl-tgr.ARPA> wmartin@brl-bmd.UUCP writes: >In article <103@pyrnj.uucp> romain@pyrnj.uucp (Romain Kang) writes: >> The Doctor comes up with a >>plan to eject 1/4 of the TARDIS's mass (17000 tons, velocity > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>unspecified) to produce the thrust to escape. > >Even though the *spatial* dimensions are tricky, with a small physical >size in our world(s) but huge once you get inside, the MASS in our >world(s) should be the full amount (does the above mean that 17,000 >tons is 1/4 the mass, or they ejected 1/4 of 17,000 tons? [and being >British, it should be "tonnes", right? :-)]. So it should be immovable >without a huge crane in our environment. Therefore, every time a story >has it being moved, or sitting in a spaceship which has to then haul(*) the >TARDIS's mass and its own payload, this is a failure of the writers to >stay correct and consistent. All fans should flame the writers! Not necessarily, as they say in innumerable Monty Python skits. I don't know precisely how the doctor ejected that mass; he may have had to rotate it out of whatever dimension it was in before ejecting it. Consider the suitcase in Heinlein's "Glory Road": when folded it had the same mass as an ordinary backpack, but when unfolded from its several dimensions it was observed to contain objects totalling many times that mass; we were just seeing the projection of the thing into our own 3 spatial dimensions, and that's all the mass and inertia our universe was getting charged with. Are Time Lords less advanced than the Twenty Universes? Sure seems to me like the Tardis has a similar technology. -- Jim Gillogly {decvax, vortex}!randvax!jim jim@rand-unix.arpa
lepine@ctoavx.DEC (08/21/85)
Well, the most obvious, but not quite so interesting answer is "Why
not?". Since the TARDIS interiors are in another dimension, which is
presumably otherwise empty,there is no reason why they shouldn't be huge.
To understand the second, more scientific, reason you must take into account
the reason for which TARDISes were originally designed. Their purpose was to
be used in scientific and technical study. To this end, hundreds of Time Lords
could be transported through the entirity of time and space to study other
cultures, etc. (Bear in mind that the Time Lords knew about the Reptile Men
and the Doomsday weapon before either of the stories concerning them took
place. Also consider the TARDIS wardrobe.) Such ventures would require
adequate facilities to house many people as well as bathrooms, recreational
areas, a zero room, and, of course, laboratories equipped with all the latest
in the field of technology.
Aside from this, TARDISes may have been used for other things. There was a
period in Gallifrey's history before the Minyos incident when there was
interference with other races. Indeed, during Rassilon's time and before,
meddling was widespread (mainly involving the use of the time scoop and the
Death Zone). TARDISes could have been used to house vast armies. In "THE WAR
GAMES", SIDRATs (which preceeded TARDISes) were utilised in this manner.
It has also been suggested that perhaps certain powerful Time Lords have
their own private TARDISes, in which case, they would be free to do any
interior designing that they wished. This could account for certain luxuries
present in some TARDISes (eg.the presence of cloisters in the Doctor's TARDIS,
although these seem to act as a sort of meditation centre for the Doctor rather
than just a luxury commodity).
Evidence seems to suggest that later models than the good Doctor's own (all
type forties have long-since been recalled) are smaller.
Now for a quick trivia question. See if any of you can pinpoint the story
where the following quote hails from:-
"Funny,isn't it?"
"What?"
"How we keep landing on your Earth!"
--Simon Barker
(an English "Whovian" in exile in Glastonbury,CT)lepine@ctoavx.DEC (08/21/85)
1)TARDISes aren't infinite. (What's 25% of infinity?) 2)The TARDIS doesn't expand itself. It does, however, regenerate and reconfigurate (to a small degree) itself. There are two control rooms for convenience or luxury, not because the TARDIS is lazy. --Simon Barker
percus@acf4.UUCP (Allon G. Percus) (08/22/85)
> I seem to remember a discussion a while back about how the Doctor and > his companions are able to understand the many languages that they must > run across (can you imagine all the inhabitants of all the universes > speaking the kings English?). Perhaps, since The Doctor and his companions > understand other languages, they would translate whatever others called > it into the name they knew, e.g. TARDIS. As the originator of (and perhaps the only contributor to) the aforementioned language discussion, I have to agree with this theory (as I mentioned in that discussion). Indeed, it seems that we (the viewers) hear things the way an average Earth companion of the Doctor would. Since they use the word TARDIS, we know the time capsule as a TARDIS, and we therefore understand whatever "Time Capsule" is in Gallifreyan, as "TARDIS." A. G. Percus (ARPA) percus@acf4 (NYU) percus.acf4 (UUCP) ...!ihnp4!cmcl2!acf4!percus
nyssa@abnji.UUCP (nyssa of traken) (08/22/85)
People, people, remember that the TARDIS is a dimensional gateway!!!
The "gate" itself may be rather light, hence people can readily move
the TARDIS, but in terms of real mass, it may be huge. That mass is
in another dimension.
This mass may be created as a side effect of motion in time, perhaps
someday I shall explain...
--
James C. Armstrong, Jnr. {ihnp4,cbosgd,akgua}!abnji!nyssa
"If she doesn't scream, the wedding can take place!" Doctor
"Don't I have a say in the matter?" female companion
"Be quiet" Doctor
Which companion, what story?barb@oliven.UUCP (Barbara Jernigan) (08/22/85)
> > Not necessarily, as they say in innumerable Monty Python skits. I don't > know precisely how the doctor ejected that mass; he may have had to rotate > it out of whatever dimension it was in before ejecting it. Consider the > suitcase in Heinlein's "Glory Road": when folded it had the same mass > as an ordinary backpack, but when unfolded from its several dimensions it > was observed to contain objects totalling many times that mass; we were > just seeing the projection of the thing into our own 3 spatial dimensions, > and that's all the mass and inertia our universe was getting charged with. > Jim Gillogly I like this explanation -- as D&Ders call it, the TARDIS is a very large bag of holding. Of course we don't explain how this is, beyond MAGIC -- but then, to quote one (or two) noted authors, "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." And who knows what Time Lords REALLY are??? ___________________ ______________\ ___________ | ______ / . / / o .ooo. ./ /. . o@ooo0 Barb .ooooo. .ooooo. .oooo oo..oo oo...ooo ooo..ooo \ .oo oo oooooo oooooo ooo ooo
guy@sun.uucp (Guy Harris) (08/27/85)
> Since they use the word TARDIS, we know the time capsule as a TARDIS, and > we therefore understand whatever "Time Capsule" is in Gallifreyan, as > "TARDIS." Except that Gallifreyans also refer to them as "time capsules" (see "The Invasion Of Time", for instance). Perhaps they're different names for the same thing, like "automobile" and "car"? Guy Harris