kupfer@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike Kupfer) (12/28/85)
Something else that's been bothering me about The 5 Doctors for quite awhile: when Troughton's Doctor is confronted with the images of Zoe and Jamie, he deduces that they can't be real, because the real Zoe and Jamie were returned to their respective times by the Time Lords and made to forget their time with the Doctor. HOW DID HE - the 2nd Doctor - KNOW? -- Mike Kupfer Xerox ISD kupfer.pa@xerox.ARPA ...!ucbvax!kupfer (gets forwarded)
ags@pucc-h (Dave Seaman) (12/28/85)
In article <11303@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> kupfer@ucbvax.UUCP (Mike Kupfer) writes: >Something else that's been bothering me about The 5 Doctors for quite >awhile: when Troughton's Doctor is confronted with the images of Zoe >and Jamie, he deduces that they can't be real, because the real Zoe and >Jamie were returned to their respective times by the Time Lords and >made to forget their time with the Doctor. HOW DID HE - the 2nd Doctor >- KNOW? For that matter, how did Pertwee's Doctor know the reason for Sarah's astonishment, that he was supposed to be "all teeth and curls, but not yet." It appears that the doctors have some sort of shared "memory." -- Dave Seaman pur-ee!pucc-h!ags
percus@acf4.UUCP (Allon G. Percus) (12/30/85)
And while we're at it, what year was the Brigadier taken from?
Judging from "Mawdryn Undead," it couldn't have been pre-1977
(he wouldn't have known Tegan yet), it couldn't have been
between 1977 and 1983 (his amnesia would have prevented him
from remembering who the Doctor was), and it couldn't have been
post-1983 (he would have had grey-white hair).
Furthermore, he had retired from the army before 1977 in "Mawdryn,"
so it couldn't be post-1977 at all.
.
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|-----| A. G. Percus
|II II| (ARPA) percus@acf4
|II II| (NYU) percus.acf4
|II II| (UUCP) ...{allegra!ihnp4!seismo}!cmcl2!acf4!percus
|II II|
-------john@moncol.UUCP (John Ruschmeyer) (12/31/85)
>From: ags@pucc-h (Dave Seaman) >Message-ID: <2539@pucc-h> >Organization: Purdue University Computing Center > >In article <11303@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> kupfer@ucbvax.UUCP (Mike Kupfer) writes: >>Something else that's been bothering me about The 5 Doctors for quite >>awhile: when Troughton's Doctor is confronted with the images of Zoe >>and Jamie, he deduces that they can't be real, because the real Zoe and >>Jamie were returned to their respective times by the Time Lords and >>made to forget their time with the Doctor. HOW DID HE - the 2nd Doctor >>- KNOW? > >For that matter, how did Pertwee's Doctor know the reason for Sarah's >astonishment, that he was supposed to be "all teeth and curls, but >not yet." > >It appears that the doctors have some sort of shared "memory." The problem may be that we think of the Doctor's story linearly, following the episodes. In the case of a time traveller, this can not be so. Just because Pertwee's Doctor spends most of his time in the early 1970's, there is no reason that Tom Baker's Doctor could not visit 1966. The First Law only covers, I believe, two "versions" of the same person existing in the same time/space region, not non-linear histories. This means that an earlier Doctor could learn of a later Doctor. At the risk of being slightly silly, imagine a scene in "The Two Doctors" where Colin Baker brings Troughton's Doctor "up to date". -- Name: John Ruschmeyer US Mail: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, NJ 07764 Phone: (201) 571-3451 *** NEW NUMBER *** UUCP: ...!vax135!petsd!moncol!john ...!princeton!moncol!john ...!pesnta!moncol!john "I hate this beer. It has no taste." "And it's so filling." "No taste." "So filling."
percus@acf4.UUCP (Allon G. Percus) (01/03/86)
> Something else that's been bothering me about The 5 Doctors for quite > awhile: when Troughton's Doctor is confronted with the images of Zoe > and Jamie, he deduces that they can't be real, because the real Zoe and > Jamie were returned to their respective times by the Time Lords and > made to forget their time with the Doctor. HOW DID HE - the 2nd Doctor > - KNOW? What with all the other responses, I never even realized how simple the answer to this question is. The second Doctor knew that Jamie and Zoe were returned to there own times and their memories erased -- the Time Lords disposed of his companions before they regenerated him. It is not unnatural to assume that Troughton's Doctor, since he was actually taken out of his own timestream, would have the memory which he had just before his regeneration into Pertwee. BTW, speaking of regenerations, did anyone notice the great similarities between the third Doctor's condition shortly after regeneration in "Spearhead from Space" and the fourth Doctor's condition at the very beginning of "Robot"? They both escape from their beds, are seen hiding in the corridors while in their pajamas, almost immediately search for the TARDIS keys, and both have it hidden in their shoes. Also BTW, I made the mistake of re-watching "Planet of the Spiders" to refresh my memory before "Robot" came on yesterday. The problem is that I was too sad about Pertwee's "death" to enjoy much of the humor in "Robot" -- I never imagined it would be that way. It's good that the BBC had a few-month-gap between "Spiders" and "Robot." . ------- |-----| A. G. Percus |II II| (ARPA) percus@acf4 |II II| (NYU) percus.acf4 |II II| (UUCP) ...{allegra!ihnp4!seismo}!cmcl2!acf4!percus |II II| -------
nyssa@abnji.UUCP (nyssa of traken) (01/03/86)
>> Something else that's been bothering me about The 5 Doctors for quite >> awhile: when Troughton's Doctor is confronted with the images of Zoe >> and Jamie, he deduces that they can't be real, because the real Zoe and >> Jamie were returned to their respective times by the Time Lords and >> made to forget their time with the Doctor. HOW DID HE - the 2nd Doctor >> - KNOW? > >What with all the other responses, I never even realized how simple >the answer to this question is. The second Doctor knew that Jamie >and Zoe were returned to there own times and their memories erased -- >the Time Lords disposed of his companions before they regenerated him. >It is not unnatural to assume that Troughton's Doctor, since he >was actually taken out of his own timestream, would have the memory >which he had just before his regeneration into Pertwee. That is assuming that the Time Lords would allow the Doctor to roam freely about the universe shortly after they captured him (with great difficulty!) in order to say goodbye to people he knew. Right. This was one obvious flaw in the Five Doctors. A better explaination, proposed elsewhere, was that Jon Pertwee filled him in at a low point during The Three Doctors. >BTW, speaking of regenerations, did anyone notice the great similarities >between the third Doctor's condition shortly after regeneration in >"Spearhead from Space" and the fourth Doctor's condition at the >very beginning of "Robot"? They both escape from their beds, are >seen hiding in the corridors while in their pajamas, almost immediately >search for the TARDIS keys, and both have it hidden in their shoes. It just goes to show that they are the same person... but different! -- James C. Armstrong, Jnr. {ihnp4,cbosgd,akgua}!abnji!nyssa "It's a sort of mini-clone!" Who said them, what story?
percus@acf4.UUCP (Allon G. Percus) (01/04/86)
> A better explaination, proposed elsewhere, was that Jon Pertwee filled > him in at a low point during The Three Doctors [about Jamie and Zoe]. Not unlikely. At several points during "The Three Doctors," the title characters (the first three Doctors, that is) contacted each other in a telepathic link. During these periods, the Doctors presumably shared copies of their memory among themselves (recall the first Doctor asking his two later selves to "fill him in on what's happened"). Incidentally, I wish they had a similar contact scene in "The Five Doctors." The closest they got to it was when the first three Doctors were concentrating on breaking Borusa's mind lock on the fifth Doctor. BTW, Another "Spearhead from Space"/"Robot" similarity which I noticed -- the Doctor's shock on seeing what he now looks like, and his getting used to it rather fast! . ------- |-----| A. G. Percus |II II| (ARPA) percus@acf4 |II II| (NYU) percus.acf4 |II II| (UUCP) ...{allegra!ihnp4!seismo}!cmcl2!acf4!percus |II II| -------
percus@acf4.UUCP (Allon G. Percus) (01/12/86)
> And while we're at it, what year was the Brigadier taken from? > Judging from "Mawdryn Undead," it couldn't have been pre-1977 > (he wouldn't have known Tegan yet), it couldn't have been > between 1977 and 1983 (his amnesia would have prevented him > from remembering who the Doctor was), and it couldn't have been > post-1983 (he would have had grey-white hair). > > Furthermore, he had retired from the army before 1977 in "Mawdryn," > so it couldn't be post-1977 at all. OOPS! Big mistake -- I forgot that it was a U.N.I.T. REUNION in "The Five Doctors." So my last argument is shot dead. It is, then, most likely that the Brigader was living in his post-1983 existence, and just died his hair black and grew a moustache for the reunion (so people would recognize him). . ------- |-----| A. G. Percus |II II| (ARPA) percus@acf4 |II II| (NYU) percus.acf4 |II II| (UUCP) ...{allegra!ihnp4!seismo}!cmcl2!acf4!percus |II II| ------- "You wouldn't understand, K-9." "Affirmative, Master." [Which episode? Sorry if I've used this quote already]