mom@well.UUCP (Gremlin) (03/15/86)
Hello, (I know there's only one Romana but ...) I just started watching Dr. Who here in San Jose Calif. (7:30 PM PST channel 54 KTEH for the person who wanted to know some stations around the country) Any way I 'm getting off the track here. What I wanted to know is last night when I was watching the first episode of 'Destiny of the Daleks' (tom baker) I noticed that they pulled a fast one on me by replacing Mary Tamm as Romana with Lella Ward as Romana who just happened to be Princess Astra in the previous series 'The Armagedon Factor'. I was just getting used to Mary Tamm as Romana (and she is much better looking) after the Dr. had left his previous sidekick on some planet a few stories back (she ran around in some kind of lepeord looking short skirt and K9 #1 also stayed with her). Anyway, how often does this happen? how many Romana's are there? Whats the meaning of life? oops , sorry that's another show. Also, refering back to a few previous shows ... why in the h... did the Dr. spend all that time chasing down all the pieces to the key to time only to scatter them all over the universe again? (at the end of Armagedon Factor). thanx
mom@sfmag.UUCP (M.Modig) (03/16/86)
> Hello, > > (I know there's only one Romana but ...) I just started watching Dr. > Who here in San Jose Calif. (7:30 PM PST channel 54 KTEH for the person who > wanted to know some stations around the country) Any way I 'm getting off the > track here. What I wanted to know is last night when I was watching the first > episode of 'Destiny of the Daleks' (tom baker) I noticed that they pulled a > fast one on me by replacing Mary Tamm as Romana with Lella Ward as Romana who > just happened to be Princess Astra in the previous series 'The Armagedon > Factor'. I was just getting used to Mary Tamm as Romana (and she is much better > looking) after the Dr. had left his previous sidekick on some planet a few > stories back (she ran around in some kind of lepeord looking short skirt and > K9 #1 also stayed with her). Anyway, how often does this happen? how many > Romana's are there? Whats the meaning of life? oops , sorry that's another > show. The changing of companions varies in frequency; sometimes they'll go thru several seasons without a change, other times there are several changes within a season. Things will get more active in this regard over the next few seasons' worth of stories. Mary Tamm basically left to pursue other things; she felt her role was too limited and wanted more range, and, realising the Doctor is the star of the show, she knew she would have to look elsewhere. She didn't make this decision until it was too late to work in a departure scene for her, so they got Lalla Ward to play the role and opened the first story of the following season by having Romana regenerate. It is a point of some contention as to whether each of the bodies Romana showed the Doctor before settling on the one that looked remarkably like Lalla Ward counted as a regeneration, so it is hard to reach a consensus on exactly how many different regenerations of Romana we have seen. > > Also, refering back to a few previous shows ... why in the h... did > the Dr. spend all that time chasing down all the pieces to the key to time only > to scatter them all over the universe again? (at the end of Armagedon Factor). The White Guardian only needed to have Time stopped for a short time to adjust the balance of the Universe. When the Doctor assembled the Key for a short time, that gave the White Guardian the opening he needed to do his task. After that, the Doctor got rid of the Key, partially because it was no longer needed, partially because he didn't want it around to tempt him with its power, partially because he and Romana felt it was cruel to, for example, keep Princess Astra as a lump of crystal for all time, and partially so someone (such as the Black Guardian) couldn't simply beat on the Doctor and get the fully assembled Key for themselves-- can you imagine how long even the Doctor would last once word got round that he had the fully assembled Key to Time in his possession? Mark Modig ihnp4!sfmag!mom
andre@nrcvax.UUCP (Andre Hut) (03/17/86)
In article <774@well.UUCP> mom@well.UUCP (Gremlin) writes: > (I know there's only one Romana but ...) I just started watching Dr. >Who here in San Jose Calif. (7:30 PM PST channel 54 KTEH for the person who >wanted to know some stations around the country) Any way I 'm getting off the >track here. What I wanted to know is last night when I was watching the first >episode of 'Destiny of the Daleks' (tom baker) I noticed that they pulled a >fast one on me by replacing Mary Tamm as Romana with Lella Ward as Romana who >just happened to be Princess Astra in the previous series 'The Armagedon >Factor'. I was just getting used to Mary Tamm as Romana (and she is much better >looking) after the Dr. had left his previous sidekick on some planet a few >stories back (she ran around in some kind of lepeord looking short skirt and >K9 #1 also stayed with her). Anyway, how often does this happen? how many >Romana's are there? Whats the meaning of life? oops , sorry that's another >show. > There were only two actors that played Romana. Romana simply liked the body of Princess Astra, so in her regeneration, she chose that form. > Also, refering back to a few previous shows ... why in the h... did >the Dr. spend all that time chasing down all the pieces to the key to time only >to scatter them all over the universe again? (at the end of Armagedon Factor). > Far better to scatter the pieces than to have the Black Guardian get ahold of it... It did seem like a big waste of effort though. I liked the key-to -time episodes, because for once the show had a definite purpose, instead of the Doctor randomly showing up someplace (in the nick of time) to fix something or somebody. You knew what they were after, and once they had a piece, you would know what they would do next. Stay Tuned! -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ihnp4-\ sdcsvax-\ \ Andre' Hut sdcrdcf!psivax!nrcvax!andre hplabs--/ / ucbvax!calma-/ Network Research Corporation 923 Executive Park Dr. Suite C Salt Lake City, Utah 84117 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (03/17/86)
>The White Guardian only needed to have Time stopped for a short time >to adjust the balance of the Universe. When the Doctor assembled >the Key for a short time, that gave the White Guardian the opening >he needed to do his task. After that, the Doctor got rid of the Key, >partially because it was no longer needed, partially because he >didn't want it around to tempt him with its power, partially >because he and Romana felt it was cruel to, for example, keep >Princess Astra as a lump of crystal for all time, and partially so >someone (such as the Black Guardian) couldn't simply beat on the Doctor >and get the fully >assembled Key for themselves-- can you imagine how long even the >Doctor would last once word got round that he had the fully >assembled Key to Time in his possession? Quite a while - forever, if he wanted to! But on another note, there is some speculation that the creature who sent the Doctor on the quest was not the White guardian, but the Black one. We know that the Guardians have the power to appear in any form, including that of their opposite. As evidence, consider the veiled threat the Guardian in The Ribos Operation makes to the Doctor. "If you don't take up this mission, then nothing will happen to you... ever!" This could be interpreted as meaning death. It could also just mean no more missions. Of course there is other evidence that it *was* the real White Guardian. The Doctor and He seem to know each other in Enlightenment. Of course at this time the Guardians have no class or cool like the one in the Ribos Operation. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. - Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
tainter@ihlpg.UUCP (Tainter) (03/18/86)
> The White Guardian only needed to have Time stopped for a short time > to adjust the balance of the Universe. When the Doctor assembled > the Key for a short time, that gave the White Guardian the opening > he needed to do his task. After that, the Doctor got rid of the Key, > partially because it was no longer needed, partially because he > didn't want it around to tempt him with its power, partially > because he and Romana felt it was cruel to, for example, keep > Princess Astra as a lump of crystal for all time, and partially so > someone (such as the Black Guardian) couldn't simply beat on the Doctor > and get the fully > assembled Key for themselves-- can you imagine how long even the > Doctor would last once word got round that he had the fully > assembled Key to Time in his possession? > Mark Modig > ihnp4!sfmag!mom WRONG! The White Guardian did not actually have the doctor fetch the key, the Black Guardian disguised as the White Guardian did. The doctor only caught onto the deception at the very end. --j.a.tainter Truth, justice and the milky way.
barth@tellab1.UUCP (Barth Richards) (03/18/86)
In article <774@well.UUCP> mom@well.UUCP (Gremlin) writes: >Hello, Hello. >(I know there's only one Romana but ...) >What I wanted to know is last night when I was watching the first >episode of 'Destiny of the Daleks' (tom baker) I noticed that they pulled a >fast one on me by replacing Mary Tamm as Romana with Lella Ward as Romana who >just happened to be Princess Astra in the previous series 'The Armagedon >Factor'. I was just getting used to Mary Tamm as Romana (and she is much better >looking) after the Dr. had left his previous sidekick on some planet a few >stories back (she ran around in some kind of lepeord looking short skirt and >K9 #1 also stayed with her). Leela. Yes, she was a warrior-savage, and the Doctor was often angry about her "kill first and ask questions later" philosophy and mode of conduct. >Anyway, how often does this happen? how many >Romana's are there? Whats the meaning of life? oops , sorry that's another >show. The last question is fairly simple: 42. The others are gonna take some time, so buckle up kiddies! We're going for a ride. There are only two incarnations of Romana (so far). She is a Time Lord (Lordess? Lady?) and she regenerated. She didn't need to, but seems to have "spent" one of her twelve regenerations to get something new. (Do you like it? I got it on sale.) (Women!) She apparently liked what she saw in the Princess Astra, and to quote (I think), "She's not going to be needing it (her physical identity) anymore." Usually, Time Lords only regenerate when their bodies are very old or are damaged. They can only have twelve regenerations (and therefore thirteen incarnations, as their first incarnation is a result of their birth and not a regeneration.) The Doctor, as an example, has regenerated because of: old age (Hartnell-->Troughton), punishment inflicted on him by the High Council of Time Lords (Troughton-->Pertwee), damage resulting from exposure to high doses of radiation (Pertwee-->Tom Baker), injuries resulting from a long fall from a high place (Tom Baker-->Davison) damage caused by a deadly disease, for which there is only enough antidote for his likewise stricken traveling companion (Davison-->Colin Baker). > Also, refering back to a few previous shows ... why in the h... did >the Dr. spend all that time chasing down all the pieces to the key to time only >to scatter them all over the universe again? (at the end of Armagedon Factor). He started on the quest for the key because he thought it was the White Guardian (representing the forces of order) who requested it. When he realized, during THE ARMAGEDDON FACTOR, that it was the Black Guardian (representing the forces of chaos) posing as the White, he knew that to let him have it would be catastrophic. Barrth Richards Tellabs, Inc. Lisle, IL
EV9@PSUVMA.BITNET (03/19/86)
(* extra line *)
there were 2 romana's, according to a recent show on WVIA-44
Pennsylvania, entitled "Dr. Who's Who's Who"...
I forget the reasons Mary Tamm (is that the name?) left, but
Leela Ward was the only replacement... So there were 2...
As to the answer on your question of the meaning of life: 42
(perhaps you didn't fully understand the question...?)
adam...
apak@oddjob.UUCP (Adrian Kent) (03/19/86)
In article <505@looking.UUCP> @looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes: >>The White Guardian only needed to have Time stopped for a short time >>to adjust the balance of the Universe. When the Doctor assembled >>the Key for a short time, that gave the White Guardian the opening >>he needed to do his task. >... there is some speculation that the creature who >sent the Doctor on the quest was not the White guardian, but the Black one. >We know that the Guardians have the power to appear in any form, including >that of their opposite. As evidence, consider the veiled threat the Guardian >in The Ribos Operation makes to the Doctor. "If you don't take up this mission, >then nothing will happen to you... ever!" This could be interpreted as >meaning death. It could also just mean no more missions. >Of course there is other evidence that it *was* the real White Guardian. >The Doctor and He seem to know each other in Enlightenment. >Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. - Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473 Why would the Black Guardian, disguised as the White Guardian, warn the Doctor about the existence of the Black Guardian? That's what happened when the Doctor was sent on the quest.
mom@sfmag.UUCP (M.Modig) (03/19/86)
> > The White Guardian only needed to have Time stopped for a short time > > to adjust the balance of the Universe. When the Doctor assembled > > the Key for a short time, that gave the White Guardian the opening > > he needed to do his task. After that, the Doctor got rid of the Key, > > partially because it was no longer needed, partially because he > > didn't want it around to tempt him with its power, partially > > because he and Romana felt it was cruel to, for example, keep > > Princess Astra as a lump of crystal for all time, and partially so > > someone (such as the Black Guardian) couldn't simply beat on the Doctor > > and get the fully > > assembled Key for themselves-- can you imagine how long even the > > Doctor would last once word got round that he had the fully > > assembled Key to Time in his possession? > > Mark Modig > > ihnp4!sfmag!mom > > WRONG! The White Guardian did not actually have the doctor fetch the key, > the Black Guardian disguised as the White Guardian did. The doctor only > caught onto the deception at the very end. An interesting alternative thoeory, but I don't think it supports everything as well. The veiled threat of the Guardian in "The Ribos Operation" could simply be interpreted to mean that things were already so bad that if the Doctor didn't undertake the mission the Black Guardian would mange to plunge everything into chaos very shortly. Also, this idea has problems in terms of Romana, since she was chosen as a companion for the Doctor by the Guardian. This is not too unlikely, but if Romana were put in by the Black Guardian, there would probably have been some attempt by Romana to take the Key at some point. We are shown Turlough's self-conflict and surreptitious communications with the Black Guardian over the course of several episodes; we see none of the same with Romana. She argues with the Doctor a lot, but we never really see any sort of action that makes us doubt her allegiance to the side of (for lack of a better term) Good. There are several other things that make me doubt this theory-- the fact that the Black Guardian is supposedly winning and therefore does not need the Key; it would be in his best interests that the Key be left unassembled. The Doctor himself seems to believe he was sent by the White Guardian- he does assemble the Key to let the White Guardian do his job, and he recognizes the White Gaurdian when both appear in "Enlightenment". It is hard to believe that the Black Guardian would be sloppy at the end when he was so smooth in the beginning, and (if I remember correctly) there are a couple of remarks in "The Armaggedon Factor" that murmur to the effect that the Black Guardian hasn't shown up yet, when is he going to, etc... Overall, I still like the idea that the Doctor was initially contacted by the White Guardian rather than the Black; it just seems more likely to me. Mark Modig ihnp4!sfmag!mom
gjphw@mhuxo.UUCP (WYANT) (03/20/86)
> >Hello, > > > ....I noticed that they pulled a > >fast one on me by replacing Mary Tamm as Romana with Lella Ward as Romana who > >just happened to be Princess Astra in the previous series 'The Armagedon > >Factor'... ... Anyway, how often does this happen? how many > >Romana's are there?... > > Mary Tamm wanted to leave after one season, so she regenerated. That is > the only time a companion has done so... About a year ago, someone who had attended a Dr. Who convention here in Chicago posted some information to this newsgroup concerning, among other things, why Mary Tamm (Romana I) left the series so suddenly. Tamm appeared at the convention, and said that she had become pregnant toward the end of the Key to Time series. Rather than deal with the issues surrounding a baby Time Lord (how do they come about, whose baby is it), it was decided that Tamm should leave the series. I do not recall any mention being made as to how Lella Ward (Romana II) was selected to replace Tamm. Patrick Wyant AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, IL {ihnp4!ihwld,mhuxo}!gjphw
tainter@ihlpg.UUCP (Tainter) (03/20/86)
> Why would the Black Guardian, disguised as the White Guardian, warn the > Doctor about the existence of the Black Guardian? That's what happened when > the Doctor was sent on the quest. To add credability to his disguise. Particularly since it would seem obvious if a White Guardian exists that there is probably a Black Guardian. If it is not obvious to everyone at least the Black Guardian's ego would require he believe it to be obvious. So telling the doctor would hardly provide any extra information. Or more likely: It was essential to plot development that WE (the audience) know of his/its existence, consistency be damned. --j.a.tainter
frodo@wcom.UUCP (Jim Scardelis) (03/20/86)
> > But on another note, there is some speculation that the creature who > sent the Doctor on the quest was not the White guardian, but the Black one. > We know that the Guardians have the power to appear in any form, including > that of their opposite. As evidence, consider the veiled threat the Guardian > in The Ribos Operation makes to the Doctor. "If you don't take up this mission, > then nothing will happen to you... ever!" This could be interpreted as > meaning death. It could also just mean no more missions. My wife feels very strongly that it really was the White Guardian based upon the warnings about the Black Guardian that the White Guardian gives the Doctor. The 'veiled threat' could just be a reference to the fact that something was wrong with the universe that the White Guardian needed to fix with the key, and if he didn't, then the universe might have fallen apart.... -- Jim Scardelis, SA {hjuxa,ihnp4}!wcom!frodo #include <favorite disclaimer>
barmar@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU (Barry Margolin) (03/20/86)
In article <505@looking.UUCP> @looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes: >But on another note, there is some speculation that the creature who >sent the Doctor on the quest was not the White guardian, but the Black one. >We know that the Guardians have the power to appear in any form, including >that of their opposite. I thought it was quite obvious that it was the Black Guardian who appeared when the Doctor finally assembled the Key to Time; I admit that I have only seen that episode once. During the early Turlough episodes I got the impression that the BG was trying to get revenge against the Doctor for depriving him of it. >Of course there is other evidence that it *was* the real White Guardian. >The Doctor and He seem to know each other in Enlightenment. Of course at >this time the Guardians have no class or cool like the one in the Ribos >Operation. Perhaps they met between episodes? Actually, I didn't really get the impression that the Doctor knew the WG intimately, just by reputation. Of course, the WG knows all about the Doctor. -- Barry Margolin ARPA: barmar@MIT-Multics UUCP: ..!genrad!mit-eddie!barmar
percus@acf4.UUCP (Allon G. Percus) (03/20/86)
> As evidence, consider the veiled threat the Guardian in > The Ribos Operation makes to the Doctor. "If you don't take up this mission, > then nothing will happen to you... ever!" This could be interpreted as > meaning death. It could also just mean no more missions. Actually, I took this more literally -- that if the key was not assembled soon enough, the Black Guardian would plunge the universe into chaos, which would mean the end for everything. . ------- |-----| A. G. Percus |II II| (ARPA) percus@acf4 |II II| (NYU) percus.acf4 |II II| (UUCP) ...{allegra!ihnp4!seismo}!cmcl2!acf4!percus |II II| -------
ins_ajpo@jhunix.UUCP (Adric of Alzarius) (03/20/86)
In article <4573EV9@PSUVMA> ev9@psuvm.bitnet.UUCP writes: >Leela Ward was the only replacement... So there were 2... ^^^^^ That's Lalla Ward...Leela was the companion before Romana I. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Not allowed? Me??? I'm allowed everywhere!" -- The Doctor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph P. Ogulin UUCP: {seismo!umcp-cs | ihnp4!whuxcc | allegra!hopkins}!jhunix!ins_ajpo ARPA: ins_ajpo%jhunix.BITNET@wiscvm.WISC.EDU BITNET: ins_ajpo@jhunix.BITNET