rsg@cbscc.UUCP (Bob Garmise) (02/01/85)
Why is the NBA so boring? Except for maybe Boston, Philadelphia, and LA, I doubt whether most of the readers of this note can name 2 starters on any other team. The interest in the NBA is minimal. Most of the people I know (are they the wrong people?) have no idea who's in first, what the divisions are, or even what the team nicknames are. Is that because we don't have a team here in Columbus? or is prevalent throughout the country? So tell me...why isn't the NBA making it? ...bob garmise...at&t bell labs, columbus...
tischler@ihlpg.UUCP (Mark D. Tischler) (02/03/85)
> Why is the NBA so boring? Except for maybe Boston, Philadelphia, and LA, I > doubt whether most of the readers of this note can name 2 starters on any > other team. The interest in the NBA is minimal. Most of the people I know > (are they the wrong people?) have no idea who's in first, what the divisions > are, or even what the team nicknames are. Is that because we don't have a team > here in Columbus? or is prevalent throughout the country? So tell me...why > isn't the NBA making it? > ...bob garmise...at&t bell labs, columbus... I'll tell you why the NBA is so boring! 1. Zone defenses are not allowed --> detracts from defense 2. 3-to-make-2 free throws --> thwarts comebacks 3. Bad shot selection 4. One-on-one play 5. 3-point shots --> further encourages bad shot selection 6. 24-second clock --> encourages bad shot selection and one-on-one play 7. No necessity for coaching, therefore there is none -- it's sandlot bball 8. Refs don't call charging --> discourages good defense 9. Refs don't call traveling (better this year I've heard) --> allows for dunks from mid-court 10. 20-second timeouts --> to easy to get out of trap situations 11. too many playoff teams --> who cares about the regular season anymore Of these, none were even thought of in the college ranks until a few years back. Now, suddenly, they've adopted #11, a version of #6, and are thinking of #5. The rest I feel have been reasonably avoided so far. Let's hope college basketball doesn't sink into the muck that the NBA has, because it sure looks like they're trying to emulate the NBA as hard as they can. -- Mark Tischler (312) 393-7199 (home) (312) 979-5123 (work) ihnp4!ihlpg!tischler
ofut@gitpyr.UUCP (Jeff Offutt) (02/06/85)
> Why is the NBA so boring? ... > here in Columbus? or is prevalent throughout the country? So tell me...why > isn't the NBA making it? > ...bob garmise...at&t bell labs, columbus... I've never cared much for pro basketball even though I love college basketball and like to play myself. The main reason is because I simply can't empathise with those guys -- they're too good. When I see Mark Price (Tech's point guard) make a great play I say "wow, I wish I could do that!". When Kareem makes something flat out impossible look easy, then I don't get that same thrill. It's like a different sport. Another point along the same lines is that I can learn things from the college players whereas the NBA players are to far beyond me to learn from them. I watched Mark Price go towards the basket and dish off underneath and tried it myself. And Bruce Dalrymple showed me how to outrebound somebody four inches taller. What can I learn from most pro players? How to shoot from any position, any angle and still miss? Not quite! It's rather sad to slight somebody for talent and skill, but there you have it. At least in pro baseball they'll drop a ball now and again, the hitters will strike out, and even the greatest pitcher will throw four straight balls. -- Jeff Offutt School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!ofut
preston@fortune.UUCP (Carol Preston) (02/07/85)
In article <126@ihlpg.UUCP> tischler@ihlpg.UUCP (Mark D. Tischler) writes: > >I'll tell you why the NBA is so boring! > > 2. 3-to-make-2 free throws --> thwarts comebacks I can tell that you haven't watched a game in years. > 3. Bad shot selection > 4. One-on-one play These are caused by poor coaching. Plays should be set up by the coaches to encourage team play. > 5. 3-point shots --> further encourages bad shot selection 3 point shots aren't the norm. They sometimes can make the game more exciting if one team is down only a few points at the end. > 6. 24-second clock --> encourages bad shot selection and one-on-one play A counter arguement is that it removes "stalling". One team can catch up to another because the teams that is ahead can't hold the ball. This though has lead to the "only need to watch the last quarter" syndrome, since it is difficult to get too far out of reach. There must be some compromise, but I can't think of one of the top of my head. > 7. No necessity for coaching, therefore there is none -- it's sandlot bball I think the opposite. The good teams have the good coaches. While Fitch was coach of the Celtics, their team play began to suffer. A good coach takes advantage of the types of players on his team. I think a lot of how well the Bullets do is based on Shue. > 8. Refs don't call charging --> discourages good defense > 9. Refs don't call traveling (better this year I've heard) > --> allows for dunks from mid-court Let's exaggerate. The main thing wrong with the refereeing is that they rely on a players reputation too much, rather than what is actually happening. Too many times you'll see a physical player get a foul, and a finesse player not. > 10. 20-second timeouts --> to easy to get out of trap situations Like I said, when was the last time you watched the NBA? > 11. too many playoff teams --> who cares about the regular season anymore Another problem is with the playoff structure. The top 2 teams in each conference should top the list, not the top team of each division. Each year only one of the Celtics or the Sixers gets the extra week off. You make a lot of statements. Why don't you back them up with examples? Especially on those that haven't been in affect for years. If you think that there are only a few good teams, then parity is your answer. It is beginning to take affect, but poorly managed seems to trade away there top draft picks, and the 'rich get richer'. When a team is both poorly managed and poorly coached, forget it. -- Carol Preston {hpda, ihnp4, allegra, ucbvax!dual}!fortune!preston (415) 594-2891 Fortune Systems, 101 Twin Dolphin Pkwy, Redwood Shores, CA 94065
michaelf@ISM780.UUCP (02/07/85)
I read an article in Sport that stated "America does not
want to see intelligent, articulate BLACK millionaires" playing.
For those who have played the game and can appreciate the talent
necessary to do seemingly simple things like fade-away Js and
no-look-assists, the game has never been better. But, basketball is
considered a black sport. Most of the audience wants to see someone
who they can perform vicariously through. Most of the audience is also
white.
I'd like to see some NFL and Baseball fans name two starters
on teams other than the Cowboys, Yankees, etc.
Does anyone know if NBA attendance is down comparitively
with preceding years?
WATCH THE SLAM DUNK CONTEST THIS SUNDAY AT THE ALL-STAR GAME!!!!srt@ucla-cs.UUCP (02/09/85)
I think the main problem with the NBA is that the season is just too long.
Most of the complaints Mark Tischler mentioned are intended to keep the
game fast moving and played underneath the hoop. Allow a zone defense in
the NBA and you'd never see a shot inside 15 feet.
I'm not sure that these rules are a good thing. I'm one of the few people
I know who enjoys watching a good four corners stall. The situation is
similar to the one the NFL finds itself in. Change the game to make it
faster and more spectacular, and suddenly find dropping attendance. A
curiousity.
Undoubtedly part of the problem is television coverage. I recently went to a
Lakers game, and while it was fun to be in the Forum to see the game, the
actual viewing was abysmal. True, we had seats in the serious nosebleed
section, but the point remains that watching a basketball game live isn't that
exciting unless you are within 30 rows of the court. I enjoy watching on TV
a lot more (and if the announcers are good, that only adds to my enjoyment.
Al McGuire leaps to mind.)
Scott R. Turner
UCLA Computer Science Department
3531 Boelter Hall, Los Angeles, CA 90024
ARPA: srt@UCLA-LOCUS.ARPA
UUCP: ...!{cepu,ihnp4,trwspp,ucbvax}!ucla-cs!srtmichaelf@ISM780.UUCP (02/09/85)
I can't believe the reasons you gave for the NBA being so boring!!
Zone Defenses make the league boring? Are you crazy? I can't imagine
how boring the game would be if team like Houston used a 2-1-2 zone.
The opposition wouldn't be able to take a shot closer than 25 feet.
That's why they don't allow a zone in the first place in the NBA.
The 24 second clock is boring? I'd take that over a Dean Smith
4 corner stall anyday. At least the crowd ( who the game is for anyway)
gets to see some action instead. It makes the offense perform.
Bad shot selection? What do you mean? The field goal percentages
for teams are probably up from a few decades ago.
How can you cite one on one play as boring? I, for one, look forward
to those little classic confrontations. I love to see Magic or Gus
Williams drive on a Bird or a Moncrief. It's like watching Goose
Gossage pitch to George Brett or Lester Hayes cover Mark Duper.
Comparing college hoops to the pros is like comparing apples and
nicer oranges. You cannot tell me there is more talent in college
hoops. I love college hoops, the way the crowd gets involved and
the emotions that are evident by the teams BUT, the other guys
are pros and half of the people who wow you in college will NEVER
be good enough to hack it in the NBA.
The 3-point shot is exciting, plain and simple. It does not `encourage'
a bad shot, it is just an option. A behind the back pass has become a
viable option for most of the guards today, but like the 3-point shot,
I don't think many pros attempt it in an unwarranted situation
where the risk outweighs the possible advantage.
The NBA has the most action to offer of any major sport PERIODbruce@godot.UUCP (Bruce Nemnich) (02/11/85)
Interesting someone should ask why the NBA is so boring now; I find it
considerably less boring now than I did a few years ago. I can't be the
only one, since TV audiences are up by something like 7% leaguewide at a
time when other sports (e.g., pro football) are losing viewers in
significant numbers. The excellent rookie crop this year helps.
This is inherently a boring time of the season. The first third of the
season is interesting because it's a time for evaluation. The last
third is interesting to the extent that it sets up the playoffs, though
it only really matters the division winners (for the bye) and those who
may or may not make it.
There's also the question of whether one considers basketball itself to
be a boring sport. I don't think so, but neither do I find baseball
boring, and I know many do. One thing about basketball which is untrue
in the other major sports: there are very few really big plays. Since
teams score an average of about 50 times each, and even the best plays
can contribute maybe 3% of the score. Basketball is a game of momentum
and runs, not of the BIG PLAY. Until the last few minutes of the game,
it simply doesn't ride on making a given shot.
There are a few things I would change. I hate the "illegal defense"
rule; what on earth is wrong with zone defense? Everyone effectively
plays a zone much of the time anyway (frequent switches), so why this
silly restriction? I *like* good defense.
The all-inclusive playoffs contribute greatly to the boredom of the
regular season. That goes for hockey, too. Any playoff system which
includes sub-.500 teams is braindamaged.
I do like the 3-point field goal, though. It introduces another bit of
strategy without complicating the game too much.
Finally, a response to Carol's statement about Bill Fitch:
I disagree. Fitch took them from 29-53 to 60-22 in one year (of course
that was also Larry Bird's rookie year). The next three years they won
61, 62, and 56 games, as I recall. That last year ('83) was not so much
a breakdown in team play as in attitude. Fitch is a disciplinarian, and
from all accounts he becomes a pain to deal with after a while. I
consider Bill Fitch to be an excellent coach of fundamentals and team
play, and he is probably ideally suited to the young talent in Houston.
I am also really glad he left Boston; the chemistry just wasn't there
anymore, and no one was having fun. They are much looser under KC.
--
--Bruce Nemnich, Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge, MA
ihnp4!godot!bruce, bjn@mit-mc.arpa ... soon to be bruce@tm.arpa9222wl@hou2a.UUCP (W.LEE) (02/11/85)
Too bad that Dr. J is not articulate. I can also name a few baseball and football players on almost EVERY team and even a few USFL players to boot. And so can my officemate. Stick that in your hoop. Better yet, slam dunk it. I bet your favorite sporting event is Superstars! D. Wilkerson (you can't get to me from there)
david@fisher.UUCP (David Rubin) (02/12/85)
I will humbly submit that I, a baseball fan and (to a lesser extent) a
basketball fan, can
(1) Name a starting lineup for each team in the National
League, name at least 80% of all its players (.80x12x25=240)
(though I'd recognize about 95% of them), and
(2) Name the starting five for each team in the Atlantic
Division, and at least 50% of all the players in the Eastern
Conference (.5x11x12=66) (although I'd recognize about 75%
of them).
David Rubin
{allegra|astrovax|princeton}!fisher!davidalee@ucbcad.UUCP (02/13/85)
Heard that a new rule was going to be installed:
Fastbreaking teams that get fouled on the layup not only get
two free throws, but also get to keep possesion after that.
This rule, if instituted, will give the better teams a better chance
to win - unlike last year's NBA championship series, which the better
team did not win.jca@abnji.UUCP (james armstrong) (02/14/85)
> I'd like to see some NFL and Baseball fans name two starters > on teams other than the Cowboys, Yankees, etc. Washington Redskins: Jeff Bostic, Ken Huff :-) The "black" arguement doesn't really work. Ever look at college hoops? The white/black ratio is about the same there, yet it is much more popular. (Or are you saying that it's OK so long as we don't pay them? :-) The games really do not make difference in the NBA because so many teams do make the playoffs. (Just like the NHL!) Plus, apart from a couple teams, the NBA teams do not have the identities of the NCAA teams. UNC is UNC, (The ACC is the best conference) but Golden State? New Jersey Nets? Who cares? -- Basingstoke this is Basingstoke. All change for trains to anywhere else in the universe.
dsaxon@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Doug Saxon) (02/15/85)
The problems with the NBA can be summarized as follows: 1. They don't play basketball. So much pushing, holding, fouling is allowed that any fouls called are arbitrary. Consequently fouls are called based more on reputation than on the sequence of events. The reasons for this is that the league doesn't want the games to become a simple test of free throw shooting, but if ALL the fouls were called consistently, I believe that the greatest basketball players in the world would adjust. 2. In crunch time ( the last few seconds of a game ) ANYTHING goes. The officials are so afraid of deciding a game at the free throw line that anything short of decapitation is "good defense" unless the shooter makes the shot. Consequently the fouling is completely out of hand in the final seconds of a game. This frame of mind becomes the standard for playoff games. The reason for this are the same as for problem one above. Again I think that if the college approach were taken, where games can easily be lost at the line, the NBA players would respond with the kind of tight but clear defense close college games end with. 3 It's FIXXED!?!? When playoff time rolls around watch with special attention the games worked by the head of the NBA officials, ole D.G. His calls are most creative and the ratio of fouls he hands out between teams, make it hard to believe he's calling them as he sees them.
michaelf@ISM780.UUCP (02/20/85)
Sure, UNC is UNC. I fail to see the logic in comparing a
popular college team with an unpopular NBA team. How about the
Los Angeles Lakers compared with Valley State or Chaminade?
As far as your black/white ratios being the same in college
and the pros, hah!