elkins@houxm.UUCP (05/15/84)
I don't think you seriously meant what you so flippantly
posted in net.kids about not liking kids that are your own,
and there being too many people trying to love their
children. I came from a home where my parents had a great deal
of ambivalence about how they felt about having kids in the
first place, and it did awful things to the way I
felt about myself and how worthwhile I was. Statistics seem
to indicate rather positively that a significant number of
people who are in prisons for violent or antisocial acts are
people that came from homes where there was little love or
even violence or cruelty in the place of displays of love.
If you have children and you have no love for them
I suggest that you seek some professional advice about what
to do when they begin attempting suicide, drug abuse, anti-
social acts, or becoming manic depressives.
If on the other hand, you were just having some fun with
your terminal when you wrote in, then I hope you were ready
for the fireworks you'll probably receive. In any case, go
shove dead sqirrels down your shorts.
Jay
A Father of Threemark@umcp-cs.UUCP (05/20/84)
Aside from flip answers, do you have any serious advice for people who
aren't crazy about their kids?
No, not really. But which is cause and which is effect?
There are kids who, despite being given
consistent love and attention become unlovable.
This I don't believe. Quick argument: define love as really thinking
about someone so as to do what is best for them. assume that all
children are created more-or-less equal at conception (we are talking
good or bad behavior potential here, not sports ability or test-taking-faking).
Assume that in this country, today, there is plenty of information
about what children and other human beings need. Conclusion:
if you are really loving/thinking, with sufficient information,
about your child, they cannot become unlovable.
Argument 2: What does "unloveable" mean, anyway?
There are parents who
despite their best efforts discover they weren't cut out to be parents.
Do you think foster parents are a better situation?
You bet! Or adoption. Especially if the situation involves abuse,
child-beating, or worse. I think these are much more prevalent in our
culture than we are led to believe.
But I know kids I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy who have
very caring parents and have lovely siblings.
I don't believe it. See argument 1 above. In every case I have
ever seen of seemingly terrible kids it can be traced to unthinking
parents. To me, love means thinking, not a lot of other weird things
that pass for it. I have seen a lot of parents meeting their
own needs to have someone to manipulate/have-power-over, and calling
that manipulation love. It may even look like love at a glance,
because there may be lots of fancy clothes, gifts, even "cuddling",
involved. It isn't love.
Furthermore, it may make a difference WHAT is supposedly unlovable
about a child. The so-called terrible two's is a good example.
Two year olds are supposed to be "terrible" because they argue,
don't obey, say "why" alot, etc. This is only terrible if you
are raising a robot. It is WONDERFUL if you are raising a person.
May my kids (now 2 and 6) always argue, not obey, and say "why" a lot.
I do.
--
Spoken: Mark Weiser ARPA: mark@maryland
CSNet: mark@umcp-cs UUCP: {seismo,allegra}!umcp-cs!markrwh@aesat.UUCP (Russell Herman) (05/20/84)
<FLAME ON>
Then too, just because one does not love a spouse or child doesn't mean that
one has to dump them. There is this old-fashioned notion of "responsibility"
that leads you to doing the best you can, and at least if you think you're
being short-changed on the amount of "happiness" you believe you're entitled
to, at least you might derive some sense of "satisfaction".
How many of you as children yelled at your parents "Look, I didn't ask to be
born." It's as true for your own children as it was for you.
--
______ Russ Herman
/ \ {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!aesat!rwh
@( ? ? )@
( || ) The opinions above are strictly personal, and
( \__/ ) do not reflect those of my employer (or even
\____/ possibly myself an hour from now.)elt@astrovax.UUCP (Ed Turner) (05/24/84)
The horror of it is that those who do not (cannot) love their kids enough to make them lovable are frequently exactly those people who were not loved enough themselves as children. Sometimes they know it and sometimes they do not. When they do know it, there is often still a confusion between the (important) emotional aspect and such things as gifts or just spending time together. [That last sentence isn't too clear; what I mean is that it is not so much reading your children a bed time story that is important as it is their perception that you *enjoy* reading to them.] Children are undiscriminating learning machines, not least of emotional responses and attitudes. This is one of the ways we can tell that the world was not designed with any particular regard for human happiness. Ed Turner astrovax!elt
riddle@ut-sally.UUCP (05/24/84)
>> One of the most destructive mythologies of our time is the idea that it >> is normal for everyone to get married, settle down, and have children. >> Parenting is not for everyone. I have great respect for someone who is >> able to admit that they just aren't the sort to raise kids. >> >> -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall I agree completely -- but the time to admit it is b e f o r e you have gotten married or had kids, not after! --- Prentiss Riddle ("Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada.") --- {ihnp4,seismo,gatech,ctvax}!ut-sally!riddle
edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall) (05/29/84)
+ One of the most destructive mythologies of our time is the idea that it is normal for everyone to get married, settle down, and have children. Parenting is not for everyone. I have great respect for someone who is able to admit that they just aren't the sort to raise kids. -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall
preece@uicsl.UUCP (05/31/84)
#R:houxm:-78500:uicsl:22800016:000:1158 uicsl!preece May 17 23:54:00 1984 If you have children and you have no love for them I suggest that you seek some professional advice about what to do when they begin attempting suicide, drug abuse, anti- social acts, or becoming manic depressives. ---------- Aside from flip answers, do you have any serious advice for people who aren't crazy about their kids? There are kids who, despite being given consistent love and attention become unlovable, there are parents who despite their best efforts discover they weren't cut out to be parents. Do you think foster parents are a better situation? Now as it happens I'm crazy about my kids and we had them because we both liked our families and wanted to be one too. Fortunately our kids have turned out pretty well (so far, at least), but I like to think we would have done our best by them even if they had been horrible. But I know kids I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy who have very caring parents and have lovely siblings. I can imagine not being able to stand a kid like that. I don't know what to do about it, but I can imagine it. If Jay can't he must have a limited imagination. scott preece ihnp4!uiucdcs!ccvaxa!preece