rwh@aesat.UUCP (Russ Herman) (01/13/85)
I too am somewhat surprised at the generally pro-spanking position of the net.
I can't speak for other people's kids, but my little guy has never been
physically (I agree with whoever posted the comment about non-physical)
spanked. Ever since he was about two, all I had to do is look
at him in an angry tone and he'd cry. I'm not sure whether he's more
sensitive than some kids, or if it's *because* we've never spanked.
That is saved for things like defiantly running out into traffic, sticking
fingers in wall sockets, and reaching for things on the stove. While each
of these has happenned once or twice, they have never been done defiantly,
and training was successful without this last-resort measure.
By the way, if you're a pre-parent who is considering a non-spanking
approach, don't be suprised when, in spite of it, your kid decides to
hit you. It seems to be instinctive. We've got ours pretty well trained to
punch a pillow or the couch rather than us or throwing things (still does
the latter occasionally). One of the things I wonder about is whether, having
begun using spanking, a family can retreat from it, particularly with young
children. My gut reaction is that you can't - it's a bit like using nuclear
weapons.
Another stylistic difference in parenting I notice is this discussion of
"good" vs. "bad". Frankly, I don't believe in that distinction (not to
say I don't between "good" and "evil", but that's another topic...).
The labels I use for Joel's behavior are "nice" and "not nice". Now I
realize that the subtleties of "good" vs. "nice" are lost on a 3 year old.
However, as we grow older, we reinterpret the recalled words and actions
of our parents. When he can make the distinction, I want him to realize
what I was saying.
An aside: children's cognition isn't anything like adults'. The
Do good boys/girls do X?
Did you do X?
Are you a good boy/girl?
sequence does not produce the expected result. Read Piaget or one of his
explainers (I never could get thru the original writings!) for further
insights.
--
______ Russ Herman
/ \ {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!aesat!rwh
@( ? ? )@
( || ) The opinions above are strictly personal, and
( \__/ ) do not reflect those of my employer (or even
\____/ possibly myself an hour from now.)tim@ccice5.UUCP (Timothy G. Becker) (01/17/85)
In article <322@aesat.UUCP> rwh@aesat.UUCP (Russ Herman) writes:
I too am somewhat surprised at the generally pro-spanking
position of the net. I can't speak for other people's kids,
but my little guy has never been physically (I agree with
whoever posted the comment about non-physical) spanked. Ever
since he was about two, all I had to do is look at him in an
angry tone and he'd cry.
Russ, why does he cry with a look? What does THE LOOK communicate to your son?
Because a young child isn't real good at reasoning, disciplining must mean
something "unpleasant" (ie. spank, go to room, etc.) When I give my
3 year old THE LOOK, he knows it means a spanking if he doesn't stop
the wrong behavior. The look needs to be associated with some action in
the childs mind. What thought of action invokes your child to cry when
he gets THE LOOK?
I'm not sure whether he's more
sensitive than some kids, or if it's *because* we've never
spanked.
Why would it be *because* you've never spanked?
That is saved for things like defiantly running out
into traffic, sticking fingers in wall sockets, and reaching
for things on the stove. While each of these has happenned once
or twice, they have never been done defiantly, and training was
successful without this last-resort measure.
I agree with your distinction for defiant behavior.
To all the nonspankers: How do you ultimately get your child to
go to his room, sit on a chair, etc? I'm asking honestly (no threats
intended). My son gets right off the chair, opens the door to his
room, etc. when he's especially defiant. What do you do then? I spank.
Tim Becker.
...!{decvax,allegra,seismo}!rochester!ccice5!timmark@tove.UUCP (Mark Weiser) (01/20/85)
In article <637@ccice5.UUCP> tim@ccice5.UUCP (Timothy G. Becker) writes: >To all the nonspankers: How do you ultimately get your child to >go to his room, sit on a chair, etc? I'm asking honestly (no threats >intended). My son gets right off the chair, opens the door to his >room, etc. when he's especially defiant. What do you do then? I spank. > >Tim Becker. >...!{decvax,allegra,seismo}!rochester!ccice5!tim I go into the room with my child and sit on the bed with her and hold her there if necessary. She hates this, and before long she stays there on her own. Sure beats spanking--I feel it shows her that her misbehavior was sufficiently important than I am willing to spend some time on it, and have not just sent her to her room to get her out of my hair or to get it over with. I think she understands. -- Spoken: Mark Weiser ARPA: mark@maryland Phone: +1-301-454-7817 CSNet: mark@umcp-cs UUCP: {seismo,allegra}!umcp-cs!mark USPS: Computer Science Dept., University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742
rwh@aesat.UUCP (Russ Herman) (01/20/85)
I see that I've triggered a few queries from tim@ccice5. I hope they're asked in the spirit of attempting to discover different ways of relating to his child(ren). >Russ, why does he cry with a look? What does THE LOOK communicate to your son? >Because a young child isn't real good at reasoning, disciplining must mean >something "unpleasant" (ie. spank, go to room, etc.) When I give my >3 year old THE LOOK, he knows it means a spanking if he doesn't stop >the wrong behavior. The look needs to be associated with some action in >the childs mind. What thought of action invokes your child to cry when >he gets THE LOOK? THE LOOK communicates my displeasure. It's backed up with sending him, or more likely carrying him, up to his room. But I don't think it is the sending to the room that gets him upset - it's knowing that I'm mad at him. And you don't have to be terribly good at reasoning to realize that; my *cat* was bright enough to be able to pick that up. By the way, sending him to his room isn't, per se, unpleasant. His toys are there, some of his books, and his fish. He spends time there on his own every day. The idea is *not* to punish the kid; it's to isolate him until he's in the mood to rejoin society again. Unlike some of the fears I've seen in other postings, he does not associate being in his room with being punished. Once in a while, after being sent to his room, he decides to stay up there and play after calming down. Fine with me! >Why would it [his being more sensitive] be *because* you've never spanked? Well, I don't know whether people are born with different degrees of sensitivity. I DO know that sensitivity can be both enhanced and blunted. He has to respond to more subtle cues than a swat on the backside to know how I feel. The ability to respond to subtle cues is one of the ways I define sensitivity. >To all the nonspankers: How do you ultimately get your child to >go to his room, sit on a chair, etc? I'm asking honestly (no threats >intended). My son gets right off the chair, opens the door to his >room, etc. when he's especially defiant. What do you do then? I spank. Sounds to me like your kid is asking you to spank him. Guess he doesn't find it as unpleasant as you think he does. Now what? -- ______ Russ Herman / \ {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!aesat!rwh @( ? ? )@ ( || ) The opinions above are strictly personal, and ( \__/ ) do not reflect those of my employer (or even \____/ possibly myself an hour from now.)
dwl10@amdahl.UUCP (Dave Lowrey) (01/21/85)
> I go into the room with my child and sit on the bed with her and hold > her there if necessary. She hates this, and before long she stays > there on her own. Sure beats spanking--I feel it shows her that > her misbehavior was sufficiently important than I am willing to spend > some time on it, and have not just sent her to her room to get her > out of my hair or to get it over with. I think she understands. > It all depends on the child. My son, (4 as of yesterday), would just get madder and madder if I tried to physically hold him down like that. The same goes for the chair in the corner routine (altho we do try that for minor infractions). It all goes to show that each kid is different! -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Lowrey "GORT...Klatu borada niktow" ...!{nsc,sun,hplabs,ihnp4}!amdahl!dwl10 [ The opinions expressed <may> be those of the author and not necessarily those of his most eminent employer. ]